Kids these days... 14

[cessna98j]

I don't know what others have experienced lately, but it seems like a lot of fresh graduates looking for work just don't want to put in the effort to set themselves apart from their peers. In the past couple weeks we've had a few engineering graduates stop by our office to inquire about open positions. Of those few, we've had resumes filled with grammatical errors, people who come in with their moms, and job seekers dressed like they just came from the gym. Yesterday, we had a young grad stop by asking about work dressed in jeans and a sweatshirt wearing his hat backwards! To top it off, he was rude when we said didn't currently have any open positions but would keep his resume on file.

I would think that given the economic climate and lack of jobs for new graduates, there would be tremendous competition out there and people would be doing everything they could to carry themselves professionally and bring their 'A' game... I just don't see it.

While I admit I'm only 5 years out of college, I was wearing nice shirts with ties any time I approached a potential employer and made sure that my resume was flawless - and that was back when most grads had at least 2 or 3 job offers upon graduation!

I guess I'm just surprised at what I've seen in our area anyway. Are other people seeing much effort from the current generation of college graduates looking for work?

 

[frv]

Interesting thread..

I recently opined on something very similar in a conversation with some friends

I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I think the whole "what's wrong with kids these days?" line of thinking has been around since the first ape who refused to throw feces at other apes offended the previous generation for disregarding tradition.

I've made it a point to learn as much as I can and be as informed as I can. I think it's important to be a well-rounded human being. But that is me.

I've met people significantly older than me who use abhorrent language and grammar. I've met kids much younger than me that inspire hope for the future. It comes down to personal choices.

I don't deny that the world is changing. Communication is changing (for the life of me, I can't understand the appeal of twitter). But I think it's too early to dismiss this generation. I've met a lot of kids who, although lacking in some aspects, have the right attitude and work ethic.

 

[BJC]

It may be that those kids read some of the groups in this forum and don't really want a job in engineering. Lots of discontent expressed in some of the groups.
Lots of people dissatisfied with their boss, the content of their job, their co-workers, their pay etc. etc.
They can see their parents and friends working 50 amd 60 hours a week and getting paid 40. When projects are done the people get shown the door.
May be these "kids" are smarter than we think.

 

[dvd]

Well put FRV. There is nothing new under the sun.

 

[Lion06]

I'm a little late to the I/me discussin, but........

The rule I always remember when choosing between I or me is that I can never be used as the object of a preposition.
e.g. John and I are designing a retaining wall - ok, I is the subject of the sentence

Do you want to go on a site visit with John and me to see the reinforcing for the retaining wall we designed - me is appropriate here because John and me are objects of the preposition with.

I hear people at my office all the time say things like, "When you figure this out, let Bill and I know". It drives me crazy.

 

[IRstuff]

Speaking as not a GenY, X, or whatever, only as a tail-end baby boomer, this is a REALLY FUNNY thread. Do most of you realize that the EXACT same conversations took place when you guys graduated from college? Similar comments about "pot-smoking dopeheads" from 40 yrs ago ring any bells?

Seems like every generation is always disappointed about those that follow, "Cain't unnerstan why Joe-Bob dunn't wanna stay and work the farm, like me and my paw afore me."

The only thing that's substantially different is that there are a whole bunch of different generations comparing notes about their "new" generation.

One would think that based on these types comments over the generations, we should have slipped completely backwards into the primordial slime and reverted to some lower form of animal, but we haven't, yet, so apparently, we aren't regressing as much as every generation thinks we have.

TTFN

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[SAITAETGrad]

What really stands out for me about these young kids is that even if they do show up two hours late, they get more work done by lunch than some who have been coasting since 1990.

 

[rowingengineer]

you can do anyhitng fast if you forgo checking.

SEIT,
you must love reading my posts and as much as pulling teeth.

IRstuff,
Me thinks you onto something there.


now everyone has missed the real test, is it grammatical or grammatic errors?

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

 

[GregLocock]

You do realise a lot of these grammatical rules were invented in the 1800s in an attempt to make English more closely resemble Latin? If you think that is a good idea, fine, but frankly it is fighting a losing battle, English is a Creole, you are trying to put a Roll Royce hood ornament on a Chevy.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[apsix]

Come on Greg, it's more than just a good idea.

These rules have been accepted and recognised as useful over the past 150 years or so, by your assertion, why do you predict their demise now?

 

[GregLocock]

In what way is it useful? It was an attempt to apply a veneer of romance language respectability to a hodge-podge of Celtic, low German and Scandinavian with a few French loan words thrown in.

in what way is "me and Peg nicked off down the boozer and got blaggered on Spesh" any less clear than "Margaret and I walked to the local hotel and over-indulged in sherry" for the point in question?


Cheers

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[apsix]

The first is only clear to those in the know.
The second follows the recognised rules and is therefore more widely understood.

I'm not judging which is 'better', just which follows the generally accepted rules.

 

[abusementpark]

I'm a member of Generation Y and I'm certainly not impressed with the large majority of my peers. I don't see many who take a great deal of pride in their work. Also, a lot of them have this annoying strict work schedule mentality and jet out the door the minute they have technically made 8 hours, regardless of whether there was something that need to be finished up that day. Furthermore, the technical writing skills of my generation leave a lot to be desired.

While some of these habits irk me, I personally welcome them because it makes it all the easier for those of us in the top class of our generation to separate ourselves through performance.

 

[moltenmetal]

IRStuff, the tail end of the baby boom (birth dates from about 1961 to about 1967, which actually include some of the highest birth population years OF the baby boom in North America) and beyond that into the "baby bust" years (to about 1981), is what people call Generation X.

Generation Y are the children of the baby boomers- the so-called "echo" generation.

These criticisms of youth are nothing new. There are good and bad kids in this group just like in all others. What's different this time around is that their parents are trying to sell us on the notion that we're all supposed to change to accomodate what they are, rather than vice versa or meeting somewhere in the middle.

We hire 'em as students and sift through the chaff to find the ones that work in our business culture. Haven't had a problem either recruiting or retaining them so far.

 

[TenPenny]

I think that a fair abmount of the '8 hours no more' mentality comes from kids who see their parents slaving away, doing 50 and 60 hour weeks, missing family events, only to be cut loose the minute the economy stutters, or the project is finished.

Our society (North America, at least) sets the example that if you're a top executive, you make obscene amounts of money, and anyone else is expected to sacrifice everything, and be prepared to be fired at the drop of a hat.

Does anyone think that example encourages kids to work hard for the sake of the employer? Kids aren't stupid, they see their families, friends, neighbors, and they read the papers.

 

[monkeydog]

About 30 years ago, at my first engineering job, 6 months into the job, my boss took me aside and "chewed" me out for coming in 5-10 minutes late (although I was making up the time). Started to become a habit, but just a discussion would have worked. So I started coming in 5-10 minutes early, and walking out after 8 hours.

When you have a boss like that, I don't fault anyone for putting in the 8 hours and putting the pencil down after your 8.

 

[calguy07]

come on guys, be realistic. i'm 31 and now and a completely different person now compared to when i was 23. i look back and can't believe some of the stuff i did or was interested in. people mature over time. having said that, it is quite surprising that those "kids" did turn up at the office looking for work with that presentation. not even i would have done that back in the day. you should feel lucky the resumes weren't filled with the typical "brb", "ttyl", "lol" and "wtf" that high school teachers are now apparently seeing in assignments these kids are submitting.

...and yes, my grammer is always good in a real life professional setting. i just don't like using the shift key on message boards..lol (<---do you guys know what that means??)

 

[KirbyWan]

I think when we dialog about weather language should be descriptive or proscriptive it is very impactful, but I don't know witch forums it would be better in.

BTW I think both grammatic and grammatical are acceptable. When I face a choice like this I usually go with the shorter word unless one just feels more right.

And in conclusing over the next 40 years the kids these days will improve their interpersonal and grammatical skills until they will start to complain about the kids these days. And when the do we, if we are still around, can feel smug.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[Twoballcane]

When I hear OP’s complaint, I think of how we Gen Xers have change the paradigm of our company culture. We brought in the dress down Fridays (well now the dress down all week unless there is a meeting with a customer), 9/80, the concept of work/life balance, diversity among the work force, work from home, and open door policy. I remember when I first started working where I had to where a tie, white shirt, and dress pants. And, even had to keep a business dress jacket in the office, because when you met with your manger or anybody higher, it was an unwritten rule to where your business dress jacket. Now we are in sneaks, jeans, and a nice polo shirt. And, we stay dress like this even to see the director. I remember back then that the Gen Xers where a bunch of lazy, lax, and pompous yuppies and now we are managers and principle engineers. I wonder what the next generation will change, maybe dress down interviews.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[KENAT]

How many people really understand the grammar world (excluding the big boys from the Engineering Language/Grammar Skills aka hgTX, kenat, zdas04 et al)

Erm, I believe you may be confusing me with someone else. I can barely spell grammar let alone apply it.

It was a lot better when we walked up hill both ways, in the snow, wind in our faces both ways... to our first interview.

At the same time, the behavior in the OP, or poorly worded Resumes don't ingratiate applicants with me, though I find some aspects of them less offensive than the all too typical resume that reads like something a marketing major pulled out of their fundament.

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[HgTX]

(1) Kids These Days will never be as good as We Were In Our Day.

(2) Nonetheless, the steretypical Gen Y'er is really, really goddam annoying.

(3) However, it is their elders' choice whether to cater to them or not. If we don't cater to their need to be special, they won't get away with it. Before the Great Recession of Ought Seven, there were all kinds of articles written about how workplaces were needing to adapt to the "everyone is special" Gen. Y mentality and dole out a lot more head-pats. My bet is that's not really the case any more. They'll learn.

(4) Every dialect has its function. There are prestige dialects and nonprestige dialects, and each can be correct or incorrect, depending on the social situation. A white-collar or technical work situation demands the prestige dialect in written communication and to a lesser extent in spoken communication. How you speak to your boss while delivering a presentation to a group may not be how you speak to your boss one-on-one in the boss's office, which in turn may not be how you speak to your boss in the pub for an after-work happy hour with the team. How you write in a report for outside consumption may not be how you write in an external email, which may not be how you write in an internal email. A resume is assumed to be "best foot forward", and if someone can't manage to get that right, how can we assume they'd put the right level of care into, say, a writeup for a client--or, worse, a potential client? Not being able to match the dialect to the situation is itself a social/professional failing.

(5) Clothing and other matters of appearance are similarly dialectal.

Hg

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