Korean airplane crash 2

[LittleInch]

All but two presumed dead after Jeju Air plane crash in South Korea – video

The Boeing 737-800 skid along the runway before hitting what appears to be a concrete barrier and bursting into flames at Muan airport in South Korea.

www.theguardian.com

Looks like a near text book landing wheels up until they hit a rather oddly placed concrete wall.

Only two survivors.

 

[TugboatEng]

I do wonder why they maintained the high approach speed of a no flap landing. I feel that should have been a warning. But, the PIA 8303 flight is precedent that a pilot can be so confused about the configuration.

 

[3DDave]

PIA 8303 was a 50% confusion, mainly over the question of go-around or not go-around. The pilot in command intended to land; his first officer disagreed.

I note that both 737 MAX crashes and the PIA 8303 crash were precipitated by the crew "cleaning up" the aircraft as part of their response to an unwanted flight condition for which not being "clean" was not involved in the problem in any way. I do not understand the desire to make changes to an already unstable situation.

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The cockpit voice recorder from South Korea is/has been copied out and is being examined to produce a transcript and that should resolve the intention vs. confusion issue.

The flight data recorder was damaged in a way they could not attach a read-out device, so it is being sent to the US for a more advanced effort. There's no indication yet that the modules inside are damaged; the report is the external connector was separated in the crash.

I hope this can be resolved by the review of the CVR and FDR and isn't another case leaving ambiguity that could have been eliminated with a video recording of the flight deck.

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It appears the South Koreans are doing a top-to-bottom analysis of every aspect of aviation, including police raids on the airport management offices.

The raid came as pressure built on authorities to establish the cause of the crash, which occurred after the Boeing 737-800’s landing gear apparently failed to deploy as it came in to land at Muan, in the country’s south-west, on Sunday morning.

Police raid Muan airport in wake of South Korea plane crash

The raid came as pressure built on authorities to establish the cause of the Jeju Air crash, which left 179 people dead

www.theguardian.com

I think they will find that the landing gear did not fail to deploy, but that the pilots simply didn't call for the deployment or act on it for the same reason they did not deploy the flaps or the speed brakes/spoilers. Any reasoning about why is just a matter of waiting for the CVR to be reviewed.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I don't understand either 3DDave.

I think the profile of pilots has changed significantly.

And it's continuing to change.

Some of it is airlines wanting a more compliant work force.

 

[DirteJoe]

Some of it could also be a national pride thing.
Was talking with a buddy of mine who's stationed in South Korea about the crash earier. His opinion is basically South Korea as a whole cannot believe a pilot could make mistake, let alone one so drastic. There's still some outlets over there reporting that the gear failed on landing even though we all know better. Paired with everything else going on politically there, they're determined that the plane will be at fault.

 

[RedSnake]

Well the back part of the engine cover is gone on the right motor could have happened at beginning of the landing strip though, its not possible to see on the video.
The motor looked intact after the "bird" strike video though.



A normal motor would look more like this wouldn't it..



This broken one looks more like the one from the video in South Korea

 

[DirteJoe]

The thrust reverser was activated.

 

[RedSnake]

The thrust reverser was activated.

Could be, hard to tell with all the dust and shadows..



But then it doesn't look like it was activated on the left motor.



Maybe a reason to turn off the motors, I assume the plane would go in a "circle" if they had been on.

 

[DirteJoe]

That's where the theory that they shut the incorrect engine off is coming from.
It's uncertain, but has been pointed out in both videos that the #2 engine (bird strike engine) appears to be running, but the #1 engine seems to be off or powered down. You can clearly hear an engine spooled up and then powering down, but no visible exhaust from the #1 engine.

 

[XR250]

There are some great videos on YT from Juan Browne and Pilot Debrief about this.

 

[TugboatEng]

This guy has some very interesting new pictures to share:

I posted this thinking this guy was on to something because the fan blades on the right engine are all bent in one direction indicating the engine was running. Now I am editing the post because I realize they are bent in the opposite direction of rotation. Still inconclusive. I'll leave the post up because the pictures are interesting.

 

[DirteJoe]

Possibly removed for rigging? Hard to tell if the missing blade(s) were there before.

 

[TugboatEng]

I initially wanted to say that the blade was possibly the one impacted by the bird but now I see that there is a piece of cowling smashed through the gap so that makes me believe the crash caused the loss of the blade.

 

[LittleInch]

Oh dear. No data from either recorder for the last 4 minutes so sounds like complete mains electrical failure.

Not sure what runs off the batteries on each circuit, but this will not help figure out more than we already are guessing went on.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jan/11/black-boxes-on-crashed-south-korean-jet-cut-out-before-impact-inquiry-finds.

Did anyone see the RAM air generator out?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The Ram Air Turbine was an option on the 737-800 apparently it scrapped by the change in certification rules just after it was certified and released. It may be that this aircraft didn't have one. The MAX has one

It does seem that the emergency battery busses and the essential DC buses lost power which is extremely unusual and quite hard to contrive in the sim on the aircraft types I have actually flown. It is possible but takes 4 or 5 unrelated system failures. The engines won't fail if they are working and it happens and the pilots would have the manual trim and rudder.

The not having the FDR data is pretty devastating to the investigation.

They should be able to get some data off the engine FADEC's they are powered by perm magnet generators. And the GPS units might also have some data.

Even if they had turned off the wrong engine they shouldn't have lost the emergency battery bus immediately which I can only presume is used to power at least the CVR. Modern CVR's have there own independent power back up internally which lasts 15mins I think . I have no clue what's in the NG or its bus setup. It could very well be out of the 737-100.

I know the electrical is one of the huge issues holding back certification of the MAX10 but nothing has been made public on the subject.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I have done a bit of research and apparently the CVR and FDR are hanging off an AC bus and there is an inverter involved to get DC battery power to that AC bus.

its a legacy transferred system from when they fitted CVR's and FDR to earlier series in the type. Then it was passed to the younger models under the major change rules not requiring recertification.

I have no clue what the MAX has but it likely hasn't been changed, unless it hit the MAX10 certification wall.

 

[Cool_Controls]

Might as well start puting go pro cameras in the cockpits!

 

[Cool_Controls]

Would the radio still have power?

 

[waross]

Might as well start puting go pro cameras in the cockpits!

And may cost less than the reams of paper used in the certification process.
My dash cam will run for hours after it loses external power. It does speed, GPS location and sound recording in addition to video.
About $300 retail, single unit. Probably a lot less in quantities and if you don't need video. (Not much to see inside a black box.)

 

[TugboatEng]

Loose items in the cockpit present their own hazards.

Dropped iPad implicated in fatal Rotak Chinook helicopter crash

Investigators from the National Transportation Safety Board have demonstrated that an Apple iPad likely jammed against the co-pilot’s left pedal prior to the fatal crash of a Rotak Helicopter Services Chinook in Idaho last year.

verticalmag.com

 

[Cool_Controls]

Lets make it a jobs program, lets put a stenographer with fire proof paper in the cockpit. Ill see myself out.