Last mile issue

[tomWU]

Hello!

We are running an innovation project. The aim is to find solutions for last mile issue. It's an issue of transferring a person from a train/bus station to his/her house/workplace. This distance may be covered by walking, but it is time-consuming and difficult in case of a retired person or a person with a burden. It may be covered by car, but it's often hard to find a place for park near bus/train station, to say nothing of traffic jams and pollution. Probably, some vehicles like Segway or GM's EN-V show the direction to solve the issue.
I am interested in your opinion as professional engineers. Which decisions would you propose to solve the problem?

 

[btrueblood]

You'd think they'd run out of names halfway across the continent, too. But no, Portland, Maine and Portland, Oregon...

 

[GregLocock]

We tried making some up but Bordertown is too dull, Wagga Wagga is too silly, and no Poms can pronounce Melbourne or Geelong.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[SomptingGuy]

When I worked in the USA (IL, MI), I told my colleagues and customers that I grew up in Plymouth, spent a few years in Brighton, but now live near Lancing. Is there a Sompting in any of the 50 US states?

- Steve

 

[imagitec]

I'm glad to hear that long-in-the-tooth Manchester is embracing a real sport like football. I simply can't understand the popularity of watching soccer.

Originally Derryfield, Manchester, NH was renamed in 1810, three years after Samuel Blodget built completed his canal and lock system on the Merrimack River and declared it would drive the creation of the "Manchester of America." It was eventually home of the largest textile mill in the world, and both Manchesters' millyards bear a striking resemblance.

Rob Campbell, PE
Imagitec: Imagination - Expertise - Execution
imagitec.net

 

[imagitec]

You'd think they'd run out of names halfway across the continent, too. But no, Portland, Maine and Portland, Oregon...

Never mind across the continent. It's common in our small, old New England states to have towns with the same names within an hour's drive. I worked for two Texans (they did the weekly commute by plane) that it drove nuts. We had customers in Hudson, New Hampshire and Hudson, Massachusetts, only 39 miles apart. Never mind Salem, Concord, Lincoln...

Rob Campbell, PE
Imagitec: Imagination - Expertise - Execution
imagitec.net

 

[cranky108]

I don't believe that if they had an airport shuttle that my wife would use it. My wife has a concern that, like taxi drivers, they would sell the information that you are not home to thieves.

Most of the last mile suggestions just won't work on some of these snowy days. And in fact the bicycle lanes go unused most of the times, if you don't count the bad drivers that use them because they can't stay in a single lane (a pet peeve that people drive to fast).

One solution to the last mile issue is if people would buy there things on-line, and the local stores delivered. Then there would not be as many last mile issues. But the local union drivers would run up the cost of deliveries so much no on could afford them.
Strange, how do the food places do it?

 

[lacajun]

Cranky, I think shopping doesn't cause near as many last mile issues as working. I vote we all stay home and the problem is solved.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

 

[cranky108]

Work from home is a possibility. But stopping off for a loaf of bread becomes a trip into itself.

Work from home dosen't work for those of us who are required to visit work sites, or collect data from sites.

So I drive to work, get a company car and drive some more (No I don't want to drive a company car home).

 

[EngineerTex]

Since this post has gone so far off the original topic, I'll add some musings that both are and are not in the original vein.

1) Light trains/commuter rail is an absolute boondogle and complete waste of money in every single place that did not have it 70 years ago. It works well in Chicago, Boston, NY and London b/c the cities were well developed before general use of the automobile. Any city developed since then cannot effectively use a train b/c everyone is so spread out.

2) Houston, TX gets federal subsidies for their public transport system. They avoided the folly of a train system and have set up specific bus lanes, treated as a rail-free rail system where the buses are equipped with systems that turn the lights green as they approach. Vastly cheaper and more flexible than any rail boondogles.

3) As stated in previous posts, bus lines bring criminals into your neighborhood while you're at work. I don't have a solution to that.

4) Encourage bus ridership by rolling out a fleet of buses that enhance the existing routes by offering a first-class ridership experience. Leather sofas, mood lighting, a bar (yes -- please, a bar!!) Charge an extra dollar or two and see how many people start using it.

5) As for the last mile issue, where I live, we have six months out of the year that you WILL NOT DO ANYTHING like riding a bike, taking a segway or walking. There are many days that I stay in the office an extra hour or two just to let it cool down enough outside so that I can walk from the office door to my car and get the A/C running. I don't even want to have to walk the 19 feet from my car to my front door when I'm home and am seriously considering moving to a house with an attached garage (mine's detached) so that I don't have to endure the insanity of the heat here.

Engineering is not the science behind building. It is the science behind not building.

 

[SnTMan]

Well, if criminals are coming into my neighborhood, I'd much rather they came by bus, than say, a van or pickup. First, the availibility is limited, second they can only carry off so much on the bus

Regards,

Mike

 

[cranky108]

Tex, have you considered a remote car starter so you can pre cool your car?
Or as I have suggested in other places, a set of solar panels to park your car under?

Use buses and not trains, what a concept. More cost (maintenance and fuel)and less reliability.

SntMan, have you consitered that what the criminals don't carry off they destroy. It make no difference to you except if it is destroyed you have to pay someone else to haul it away.

 

[SnTMan]

cranky108, I'll admit, I hadn't thought of that aspect. As I will apparently be getting a "volume based" trash service in the near future, I don't need extra stuff to throw away

Still rather they came by bus though I think.

 

[drawoh]

cranky108,

If you are building a transit system from scratch, you need to start with buses. Subways and trains work because they are located in places with high density population, and/or because there are buses feeding passengers to transit hubs.

The OP's original question was how to solve that last mile problem. The solution is for a vehicle of some kind to drive as close as possible to the rider's front door. This creates the following problems...

[ol]
[li]You need lots of transit vehicles. They need to be cheap. A large part of the bus cost is maintenance and the driver. You do want a good, professional driver.[/li]
[li]You need some sort of infrastructure located close to rider's homes and close to their destinations. [/li]
[li]The trip must be reasonably fast. This rules out a bus dropping fifty passengers each at their front doors. Even transfers from bus to bus take a lot of time.[/li]
[li]If you are building a system from scratch, you want to use as much existing infrastructure as possible. This includes roads and railways as well as maintenance facilities. This does in a lot of exotic technology. [/li]
[/ol]

There are lots of transport companies and organizations that pick you up at the front door. Most of them are taxi companies. Mostly, they use telephones. They cost a lot, and the telephones are not the primary cost.

JHG

 

[EngineerTex]

I recognize that you were attempting sarcasm with your post, Cranky, but believe it or not, buses are about a quarter of the cost per passenger-mile of the cost of trains.

Buses are much more flexible, they don't shut down the entire system when one fails, they can be re-routed based on changing demographic needs and they cost much less. I don't get this silly romantic love affair with trains that half of this country has. Get over it. Buses can do far more than trains can and they can do it much more inexpensively.

Googling "transportation subsidies per passenger mile" results in hundreds of sites that show basically the same thing, which is that the subsidy for vehicles is about a half a cent per passenger mile, buses are about 22 cents per passenger mile and trains are about 84 cents per passenger mile. Various studies show different numbers, but none of them show trains being less than many times the cost of buses.

However, even these studies are not really fair. Nobody says that we shouldn't have rail in cities like Chicago, NY, Boston, London, etc. The question is how much does it cost to roll out one of these black holes? The cost per passenger mile is perhaps acceptable in the cities I just mentioned, because so many people use them, lowering the overall cost per passenger mile. However, light rail is a terrible idea in Seattle, San Francisco or L.A. The reason is that nobody uses trains in these cities. There was a story a couple of years ago of a coyote* that hopped on board one of the Seattle light rail trains. Why? Because coyotes are solitary animals and stay far away from humans. The light rail train is a perfect habitat for this animal. THERE ARE NO PEOPLE ON THESE TRAINS. As a result, the cost for these fiscal black holes approaches about $100 per passenger mile. Think about it -- for every person on board, the taxpayers are on the hook for $100 every single mile, every single day. Trains are a HORRIBLE idea any place that they weren't built 70 years ago.

*

http://seattletransitblog.com/2009/02/04/coyote-on-portlands-max/

Engineering is not the science behind building. It is the science behind not building.

 

[cranky108]

Given a choice I would take the train.

The truth is the expencive parts of a light rail is the tracks. And while the cars do cost more, each one can take more people.

One of my big things about buses is they use main roads and stop every two blocks, in the turn lane, with no intention of turning.
I have to be careful each morning to be sure I don't get behind one of these big smelly.....

I do drive a big wasteful truck sometimes, because my smaller more efficent truck dosen't work well on ice. But the last mile issue is the same as with my smaller truck, bad on ice, unless the bus comes much closer to my house.

My comments on fuel and maintenance cost of buses, has more to do with the fuel choice, and otto cycle engine vs electric motors. But as you pointed out the driver is a big cost. Trains can be automated where they don't need drivers, if the local will allow it.

If I recall at DFW they do have electric driverless buses, but i doubt the cost of the special road is much less than rails.

Seeing the news, how good are our school bus drivers?

 

[drawoh]

...

However, even these studies are not really fair. Nobody says that we shouldn't have rail in cities like Chicago, NY, Boston, London, etc. The question is how much does it cost to roll out one of these black holes? The cost per passenger mile is perhaps acceptable in the cities I just mentioned, because so many people use them, lowering the overall cost per passenger mile. However, light rail is a terrible idea in Seattle, San Francisco or L.A. The reason is that nobody uses trains in these cities. There was a story a couple of years ago of a coyote* that hopped on board one of the Seattle light rail trains. Why? Because coyotes are solitary animals and stay far away from humans. The light rail train is a perfect habitat for this animal. THERE ARE NO PEOPLE ON THESE TRAINS.

One other thing occurs to me. Here in Toronto, we have been extending subway lines. What happens when you extend a subway line is that nobody gets on. What is happening is that you have extended into an area where everybody has cars. You need ten or twenty years for non-car-owners to move into the area and take advantage of the transit. Eventually, the lines get used.

This has to affect your financial planning. Expensive transit systems do not pay off quickly. This is all the more reason to find solutions that minimize capital costs.

JHG

 

[cranky108]

Like light rail without the over head? (I could have said cantanery, but some people would not know what I was talking about).

Maybe if they had adders, like where they could get some breakfast while riding.

I see newspaper machines at bus stops (only the nicer stops), so why not vending machines?

 

[drawoh]

cranky108,

I used to do a lot or reading while on the transit. When I got a car, my reading went way down. There are restaurants and stores inside the fare paid area of Toronto's transit, but that is the subway. A lot of people don't read, and/or cannot read on a moving, bumping bus, streetcar or train.

You could provide wireless hubs, but this only works when you can find a seat. A lot of transit here is crowded at rush hour. Would you want your bank manager to do stuff with your account with thirty strangers looking over his shoulder? There are all sorts of security issues with public wireless access.

JHG

 

[SomptingGuy]

Call me wierd, but I like reading in my car. If I get to work early, I'll read for a while. Likewise I enjoy reading through my lunch break, which is made easier if I'm not at my desk.

If I'm on the train, I'll more often than not have a beer and watch the world go by.

- Steve

 

[KENAT]

In my opinion Zip lines/Death Slides are the solution.

A big tower on top of the train station with zip lines going out radially in all directions.

Now of course the return journey doesn't come as cost effectively as you'd need a lot more towers, but hey - you asked for opinion's not good ideas.

I used the train a bit when I first was working but it was a pain. Apartment to the train station wasn't too bad but if raining etc. far enough to get wet, though being morning and the UK it was rare to raise a sweat. The train itself was frequently late or delayed, plus I had to make at least one change which involved waiting around at Eastleigh for a while. Then from the station when I got off was a bit of a walk and could again be unpleasant depending on weather, though at least I only got attacked by dogs the once. Returning in the evening the delays were problematic too, plus if I needed to stay late to finish something or because of travel etc. there weren't many later trains...

All in all the convenience of a car was difficult to beat. Living near enough to routinely walk is a nice dream though, maybe one day I'll manage it.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​