LEDGERS ON ICF WALLS 4

[reverbz]

Hey Guys,

Does anyone have any experience detailing ledgers on ICF walls? It seems kind of difficult considering the 2.5" foam layer. Either the anchors are cantilevered or I have to have a 6x ledger to be flush against the ICF core and still under the sheathing. Hoping someone has a good detail for these situations.

Thank you!

 

[jayrod12]

I've done a few different things. I've used the Simpson ICF-VL ledger connectors successfully. The contractor didn't like the costs, but what do they want from us in that regard?

The other detail, I've had them remove the insulation at the anchor locations prior to pouring the wall and have the concrete poured out flush with the face of insulation.

 

[Craig_H]

How much concrete is above your ledger? In the past, I've had the contractor cut out the foam at the interval of the ledger anchors, and form the face with plywood. Plywood can easily be made from scraps and screwed to the plastic webs in the ICF blocks. This left exposed concrete with embedded anchors to which I could fasten as per normal. This method works well at the top of ICF foundation walls, but could be problematic if you have large form pressures from above. Blowouts with ICF are nasty.

 

[SinStrucEng]

I as well have tried getting contractors to use the ICF-VL ledger connector that @jayrod12 mentioned in his reply above. I say "tried" because they always turn around and ask for alternate instructions once they see the costs. Cutting out the insulation and having the concrete poured flush is the way to go here, IMO.

 

[reverbz]

@jayrod12 @Craig_H @SinStrucEng Thanks for the suggestions guys. The contractor complained about blowouts when I tried to detail it with foam removed and with the concrete formed to the face of the ledger. This is a 2 story building at floor level for what it's worth. I'll give the ICF-VL connections a try and see what they come back with I guess.

 

[SinStrucEng]

There is always a downside, @reverbz

 

[EngDM]

Can the contractor not used the tapered ICF forms that are typically used at top of wall at locations wherever you need a ledger? The concrete steps out, insulation gets thinner, but the overall out/out of the form remains the same.

Taper Top | Logix ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms)

Taper tops are often placed in the top course of a Logix wall to provide a flat and smooth surface with more bearing surface for floor, roof or wall framing connections, or to support a brick veneer for above grade wood-framed walls.

logixicf.com

 

[DTS419]

Some building officials will not like removing the insulation because of the lost R values. The Simpson Brackets are the way to go. Don’t like the costs, then go with a traditional foundation.

 

[XR250]

@jayrod12 @Craig_H @SinStrucEng Thanks for the suggestions guys. The contractor complained about blowouts when I tried to detail it with foam removed and with the concrete formed to the face of the ledger. This is a 2 story building at floor level for what it's worth. I'll give the ICF-VL connections a try and see what they come back with I guess.

Make sure you take care of out-of-plane loads with separate fasteners as the ICF-VL does not take load in that direction.

 

[RFreund]

Can you design the bolts in bending (as a cantilever)?