Looking to Use Steel Beam in Residential application

[Apexpredetor]

Morning All,

I am looking to use a steel beam in a residential application. Trying to open up basement, but I am not too familiar with construction techniques to be able to specify the connections. ANy good references that might point me in the right direction?

I am a NY PE, not a home owner. I can probably brute force method design a beam, column, and footers, but any quick tips or references will be much appreciated.

 

[AELLC]

If you are placing hollow core planks from both sides to a steel beam make sure they are placed sequentially both sides instead of one side first, and the steel post is detailed with a base plate at least 12" square w/ 4-3/4" dia anchor bolts, hopefully the top of column is temporarily braced. Those planks have nasty habit of twisting the beam and there goes the column too.

 

[rb1957]

of course the mid-span is not the best structural place for a joint; it's not that it shouldn't happen, just that your joint is at the most highly loaded place on the beam.

persnally i'm confused by the history of this thread ...
first "I am a NY PE, not a home owner." then "I am designing a structure for MY OWN RESIDENCE" ?
suggestions to get formal training aren't replied to with "yes, i'm doing that as well"
"I am competent in the design of the beam and column, but the connections allude me. Never asked to do steel in residential construction." ... what's the problem with connections ? what's the problem with residential ? (look up the relevent code ??)
"I can probably brute force method design a beam, column, and footers" ... ? what do you mean "brute force" ? very conservative ?? what alternative are you looking for ?
"I am trying to move away from brute force method of designing from scratch" ?

i'd've thought that as a PE you'd be aware of moving out of your comfort zone (not a bad thing, if you're aware and careful), and in doing so you know to get help. This is probably not the best place to get that help; the first reply pointed you at a relevent code doc; i'd expect that you should support this by a bit of formal structural training (since as you admit it isn't you comfort zone) ... not necessarily college credits or CE credits, but there's got to be plenty of stuff online to help.

personally i'd worry about attaching a gagage to a house, presumably the gagage is a slab base and the house has a basement.

Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati

 

[Apexpredetor]

Sorry to confuse. If I went with the hollow core they would be clear span modules. I was just responding to SU10's comment on the concrete floor

 

[ztengguy]

The steel manual will walk you thru your design pretty efficiently. As a PE Im sure you know a couple structures guys that would look over your calcs, so you can feel comfortable sealing for the permit. Hell, someone on here might do it for you through private messages.

 

[Apexpredetor]

Sorry for the confusion...

1) "I am a NY PE, not a home owner." then "I am designing a structure for MY OWN RESIDENCE" ? I typically mention that I am a PE, not just a homeowner looking for a quick answer on here. I say this to let any potential responder know that they should not shy from talking engineering speak. I come here to get direction on where to look to start learning and figuring out the answer to my question, not to get the answer.

2) By "Brute Force" I mean to sit down and design, for example, a simple wood beam rather than using prescriptive codes and span tables. To the best of my knowledge the NYS residential code does not account for Steel Beam span tables, and must be engineered (I could be wrong, but I don't see steel tables in NYS res code like some have referenced to in the Canada code?). Therefore I was looking for a means to start to design the beam. I can take into account the load combo's required to determine the deflections and beam sizes, but never having actually specified one in the past and I am not sure how it would be connected if more than one beam is required along the length of the building.

3) I do have both code references, but I was looking for some actual feedback from professionals that have spec'd this type of beam/construction in the past. Possibly avoid roadblocks or hurdles before I encounter them.

4) Yes, garage has slab (if no basement underneath), but not mono/alaskan. Would be 4ft CMU (if no basement underneath) or 8ft CMU/Concrete with basement underneath. With hollow core modules no beam required. If I go with wood substructure (similar to barns and older homes with basements under parking areas) I would have a beam, possibly steel.

I am purely looking for the means to an end to calculate member sizes and connection types for the ideas I had for my addition. I look online for design ideas and then try to figure out if they are economically feasible. Being that these are my own projects (proposed, and wished for, perhaps never coming to fruition) I have the freedom to think of any off the wall idea, and design around it without any economical consequence becasue I am purely going through Ideas for my own use that will most likely never get built. Asking questions here also helps me to get to a starting place that other ENGINEERS start, or to get publications that other ENGINEERS use. By doing a simple search online I typically get homeowner/home inspector/uneducated opinion crap with no engineering basis.

Sorry for the long winded response here...

 

[jayrod12]

If your structure (house) is 48' long the steel beam is going to be ridiculously deep for a standard basement depth. Since your structure is only 28' across you'd almost be better off doing clear span open wood web flat trusses. they could span that with a total depth of 24" and provide room for mechanical and electrical openings. They are also pre-engineered so you're not liable for their design.

Just a thought if I'm understanding the point of the steel beam correctly.

 

[Apexpredetor]

You are correct. I looked at engineered I joists and I have found some that will be clear span at 28ft but for second floor use. If I decide not to make this only 28ft or decide to go heavier loading I think that the engineered floor trusses won't work or might get very expensive at such close spacing.

This simple garage addition ahs turned into a much larger task. We have two children under two and need the space in the next year or two desperately. Fact is, I will probably won't use a steel beam in this build, but if I did I wanted to learn proper methodologies to design one.

My inquiries are to most effeciently design an addition to gain garage space (we have no garage), and additional living space without blowing the budget out of the water (or going beyond the relatively small budget we anticipate having, ha).

Thanks all for the help. I will start going through the design manual.

Still trying to figure out how to connect them if two beams make up the long span....

 

[jayrod12]

You would need to provide plates between the flanges and plates between the webs and a boat-load of bolts. Google "full moment splice steel" to get an idea

 

[jayrod12]

further to the expense thing. The builder's up here (Manitoba) love parallel chord wood trusses for floors now over I-joists. The same or superior strength with the mechanical chases already provided.

You want cost-effective space, ditch the basement, a ton of the cost is the excavation and concrete for that part. Then you could go with a slab on grade in the garage with perimeter grade beams supporting the walls, floors and roof above.

 

[CELinOttawa]

jayrod: Your insulation costs must be much, much lower than here in Ontario... Basements are built here for nearly every structure as they are simply the cheapest way to deal with the frost line and heave issues.

How are you managing to build more cheaply without a basement in Manitoba? My understanding is you have a similar climat...

 

[Apexpredetor]

Excavation costs are nothing bug fuel for me (HAve access to excavator and heavy equipment). I have a mason lined up for CMU or concrete pour (all of his labor free due to giving him free rent at my 80x60 pole barn, and I grew up with him).

Only reason I'm trying to get as big as I can is becasue I don't have many of the costs a typical homeowner would have. MY only real cost is materials, and my time to amnage and design.

I'll skimp on the finished for a year or two to get the structure up and tight.

 

[jayrod12]

We have a very similar climate. I meant no basement under the garage. Put void form under the grade beams and have the foundations bear below grade (spread-bore piles or similar). As long as the base of the slab on grade is prepared correctly there shouldn't be unacceptable movement.

Most of the homes here have basements, not out of necessity for frost but more because we can (40+ feet of clay below our feet) and because you can get more usable space without the jump in taxes of having a two or 2 1/2 storey house.

I would bet on the super structure framing if you did a cost comparison between I-Joists (Or even standard lumber joists) and a centre support beam versus a clear span wood truss floor it would come out to a draw.

 

[jayrod12]

And I guess thinking about it further the basements are in a way out of necessity for the people building their houses on strip footings because they already would have to excavate below frost to place those so they might as well build a basement. Most of the new houses being built here are on friction piles (at least any worth buying in my mind) and so frost is less of an issue.

 

[kingnero]

You would need to provide plates between the flanges and plates between the webs and a boat-load of bolts. Google "full moment splice steel" to get an idea

Why not simply butt weld them together? Perhaps even get both connections at 1/4 span from the ends?

 

[CELinOttawa]

Kingnero: Because butt welding them together would be:

- a site weld (lower strength, not always the greatest, and at mid span would mean the beam is likely never going to fully develop)
And
- Expensive, short of a 'free' welder. You get what you pay for in this life...

 

[kingnero]

end plates for a bolted moment connection would also need welding, so if there is welding involved, I'd prefer a butt weld that also avoids the disadvantages of bolting.
Having one delivered, there shouldn't be much extra costs over 40 vs. 48 ft. The added weight also is a void statement, you also will need big equipment to place a 40 ft beam.
So the butt weld (if even necessary) could be done by the same guy who otherwise would need to weld the endplates to both ends.

 

[CANPRO]

Apex, if you're going for a economic design don't splice your beam, just add a post with a cap plate large enough to support the beam from each direction (as noted already).

You might want to look into using a bonus room above your garage. They can building the floor system directly into the roof truss. You get your garage and a some extra floor space above without the added cost of an entire 2nd floor. See link to google images incase you don't know what I mean.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=bonu...zy2gXipoCwDw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1680&bih=933

 

[CELinOttawa]

Hey kingero: But in the field, and at a premium cost. And yes, the welding of the end plates is significant, but it is still cheaper. Just the strange economy of steel production.

Not having the welder out of the shop is worth time and money to the fabricator. It is one of the many considerations to make in figuring out which way to design a solution.

 

[kingnero]

I meant, the butt weld could be done by the same guy in the same place (at the factory/shop who otherwise would have welded the endplates to both ends.
Because transportation wouldn't matter that much for the extra 8'.
And they will probably have 48' lengths (and more) in stock, so for all it matters, this is even a non-discussion to me, as there is no problem.

I would agree in other instances, but just not here, for using a bolted moment splice.

 

[CELinOttawa]

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding Kingero; You're absolutely right if this is an option for his location...