Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06 131

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Softee]

Pretty good views of the Collins St side from 6/24 here:

https://youtu.be/GyrvMi-4QE4

 

[SFCharlie]

maybe it's the pool deck from above

Nukeman948 (Electrical)'s photo was taken very recently, from the area of the pool, looking west and south East and South West and North [sub](pool is on the ocean side of the building) (sorry, I get confused due to the ocean being in the other direction on my coast.)[/sub] toward the debris pile left by the demolition. The entire pool deck has been removed. They threw off the pavers, sprayed the sand off with a fire hose, cut holes in the deck with the world's hugest SkilSaw, and let the excavators have a go at it. The fort you're looking at was on the garage floor under the apartments, I believe.

 

[dik]

in most jurisdictions, the doors being a means of egress would have to open outwards.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Optical98]

Well one thing is for certain, those that cleared out the Ramp area...they now know what was found there. Whether it's considered the trigger or a consequence of other events, they are aware the Public wants to know what was found there.

They (not the crew but those whom have authority of these items) need to make a statement, soon.

 

[Auri]

The fort you're looking at was on the garage floor under the apartments, I believe.

That part confuses me in the recent drone flyover. Why would they place a C-shaped fort at garage level in the driveway bounded by parking spots 16, 17, 24, and 25? I imagine everyone here noticed it; I had guessed for some reason they moved the remnants of east staircase away from the ramp.

 

[Demented]

Is there any rational as to why the 2, 3, and 4 PIFs would only be ~53.5" below the surface for this type of geographical location? This seems very odd to me. On a property on this shore line we typically drive H piles down to at least 15ft because of the underground water flow.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Roga50]

Still some weird political BS going on: Link

 

[Tropmet]

Auri, those are three beams that were above the garage level columns that were just to the east of the garage entrance, see photo below. I can only assume that when that last part of the building came down, the columns were reduced to rubble and only the beams were left, but we have no way of knowing if that is the case or if they removed everything under the beams and left them there. The position is close to the location they were when raised on the columns, perhaps a bit south of it? based on the rebar which must be remaining from the columns. That section twisted when it fell. This photo below is from that garage walkthrough part of the video showing unit 611 from last year.

 

[CE3527]

Auri - I think what we're looking at is three beams that were supporting the garage/ceiling first floor slab. They fell straight down in the collapse but remained in tact.

 

[Santos81]

Is there any rational as to why the 2, 3, and 4 PIFs would only be ~53.5" below the surface for this type of geographical location? This seems very odd to me. On a property on this shore line we typically drive H piles down to at least 15ft because of the underground water flow.

The piling elevations are not in the plans. They’d be attached to the DERM certs. It’s still unknown if it’s all precast driven or the mixture with driven at the boundary and franki for the interior.

 

[Cool_Controls]

Still some weird political BS going on: Link

That's deeply troubling, Maybe surfside PD has their three best men on the case, working in shifts.

 

[Santos81]

Still some weird political BS going on

Allyn was retained by the Town of Surfside which presents a conflict of interest. His expertise nor character are in question, just who hired him.

 

[Santos81]

This area has me baffled both in the why in the first place and how was this revised and actually built.

 

[Mark R]

Well one thing is for certain, those that cleared out the Ramp area...they now know what was found there. Whether it's considered the trigger or a consequence of other events, they are aware the Public wants to know what was found there.

They (not the crew but those whom have authority of these items) need to make a statement, soon.

They may or may not know what the triggering event was but while they certainly may know the public wants to know their findings they will be in no hurry to tell them. It's the same with every major event like this, the details will be released when they are ready to release them. It took well over a year for anything of interest to be released regarding the bridge collapse at FIU.

 

[MaudSTL]

Does anybody have any theories on this concrete slab in the post-debris removal photo? It appears to be fairly in tact in areas where it's exposed.

Is it possible that this is the first collapse that Sara Nir in 111 heard at 1:10 am?

For 25 minutes, Sara Nir heard knocking "construction sounds" that increased in intensity over time. Then she heard a "smash" that sounded like a wall collapsing. That is what caused her to go out to speak to the security guard in the lobby.

****Edit: I just read for the first time that Chani Nir says she was hearing the knocking sounds when she got home at 11 PM. So the knocking sounds may have been going on for over two hours.****

Here's a basic timeline that shows this and other events, along with a few building-related quotations from early 911 calls. It may provide some use in testing various hypotheses.

 

[gonefishing2]

Can anyone explain how this 12th Floor PH parapet is on the bottom of the patio deck pile, where deck did not fail, when the PH was the last floor to find the ground? See Tropmet's picture above for larger image at bottom.

 

[dik]

I've done lots of reports for insurance guys... and it doesn't matter who hires me... report is essentially the same.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Santos81]

Can anyone explain how this 12th Floor PH parapet is on the bottom of the patio deck pile, where deck did not fail, when the PH was the last floor to find the ground? See Tropmet's picture above for larger image at bottom

That’s a planter.

I've done lots of reports for insurance guys... and it doesn't matter who hires me... report is essentially the same.

What does experience with reports for insurance co’s have to do with a building department that was already flagged and under investigation? Surfside is at the very bottom of the list with regards to jurisdiction.

I was personally involved in the Market St collapse in Philadelphia and as a result, would question anything done on behalf of the municipality that had responsibility, regardless of who prepared it.

 

[SFCharlie]

baffled both in the why in the first place and how

...not sure I know which kind of why you're looking for? Here is the landscape vision:
(also so, the YouTube channel BecauseSurfside has a video from about a month ago about "undergrounding" [sub]Sorry, red herring, that was about the cost of undergrounding utilities[/sub] Looks like they wanted to use every inch of their property underground and still have landscaping.)

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[dik]

It depends entirely on the integrity and the skills of the engineer. His skills appear to be maybe more than adequate.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik