Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06 131

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05

SF Charlie
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[Js5180]

SF Charlie - that was me that asked about the aerial shots. I’m assuming it’s a no-fly zone as well at this point.

Regardless of the reason, I think it lacks transparency. There is obviously something to be learned here, about both construction and government. Shielding it from view doesn’t sit well with me. Preventing trespassers, yes. Flyovers, no.

 

[zebraso]

I apologize.
(I guess I'm just trying to cope with my horror.

No need to apologize. Please. I deserved it anyway. Healthy skepticism is what I would expect and I appreciate it. We're adults. As far as I can tell.

 

[Penagwin]

Here is a video showing the "explosive" compressive failure of a concrete test cylinder:

https://youtu.be/iev2UNX16QA?t=62

Thanks! I guess that rules out compression then!

 

[Penagwin]

SF Charlie - that was me that asked about the aerial shots. I’m assuming it’s a no-fly zone as well at this point.

Indeed there is a NOTAM (FDC 1/3702) for "hazards", up to 3000ft centered on the collapse.

https://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_1_3702.html

 

[3DSoftwareDev]

@3DSoftwareDev are you able to create another GIF where you show the sped-up movement, but instead of looping the video, you play it forward, and then play it back? Imagine a simulation of a beam under load where the goal is to show it wiggling back and forth as it loads and unloads. Perhaps this allows us to better view the displacement without the jolt of it resetting to the 0 mark.

Yes, good idea, I thought about doing this forward/backward version last night.

This is 4x speed, instead of 8x.

 

[moon161]

Another thing that I'm a bit skeptical of are the planters. I might be missing it, but on my drawings I traditionally call out planters and their estimated weight of soil, etc. For really large planters on buildings, Ive put a line in there limiting the kind of plants they put in the planters. I dont really see that on the original plans.

Yes, after 40 years a palm tree will probably weigh more than a bunch of ferns of equivalent weight at year zero.

 

[dauwerda]

I think the slanted falling debris inside the apartment indicates some sort of air movement or being projected in a certain direction, not rotation of the entire apartment (as others have alluded to) as there are other particles further inside the apartment that continue to fall "straight" down. This is indicated by the red arrows in the image below:

 

[CE3527]

Some additional thoughts on Ring video, of the shifting camera table and particles falling. I'm in the camp of particles falling vertically versus changes due to air movement. Especially if these are concrete particles, more likely to fall straight down because they are heavier.

 

[spinspecdrt]

I agree that the hired engineer has seen something to indicate a possible geotechnical issue. Especially since the recommendation was for buildings east of Collins Ave. Also the timing of the recommendation raises suspicion. If he was just being overly cautious, why not make the recommendation for geotechnical investigations at nearby buildings several weeks ago? What prompted the announcement yesterday?

 

[Penagwin]

Does anyone know the model number or specs for this camera? Especially the focal length of this camera/lens, we can try to calculate/motion track the room _maybe_.

 

[Illustr8r]

There might be other fixed landmarks in the video from the ring camera if looked at in reverse contrast or like a negative, since I didn’t even notice the granules from the ceiling in the mid-range until looking at still frames. Seeing a presumed 2d shape in the far wall and comparing it with other presumed 2d shapes could help to build out the 3D presumptions. Presumptively of course. I mean we can presume length of the back wall from the plans.

 

[NOLAscience]

admitting yourself its not relevant

I'm saying what they have been trained to respond to -- in the past -- is not relevant. But if it feels like there has been a major earthquake or a plane has hit the building, I say the guards should be trained to pull the fire alarm.

 

[NOLAscience]

the 40 year plans called for removal of the existing pavers and topping slab so the original concrete slab could be inspected for damage.

But would they remove the planters? The planter where the crack may have developed was under one of the very wide planters.

 

[spinspecdrt]

Pool deck underwent structural repair in 1996.
Link

 

[NOLAscience]

I have no idea of the origin of your user name, NOLAscience, but it rings a chord with sparkies.

What are you talking about? I have never heard of Nola Devices.

 

[jbourne8]

There are some new docs on that property records site btw.

The permit for the 1996 waterproofing, which includes the pool deck repair, waterproofing the planters and fixing 20 sq feet of spalled concrete -

https://uc1807f4ef13ea9781137ad7e1d...jS5S0Sl0JM2U8mZQ0NIqY8ZLEt6d3ckF_r1qGAA/file#

And a blueprint that seems to be of the basement -

https://uc18581952a2ac06dcb7ec8f334...37RyGj70nqkjb88mVRz5-lUDOnFAZPDwH9h4-mw/file#

 

[CE3527]

But would they remove the planters? The planter where the crack may have developed was under one of the very wide planters.

No. The planter walls were to remain. In hindsight, the walls should have come out to expose the whole deck. Probably trying to cut costs, but this would have been minimal cost in grand scheme of things. I guess it doesn't matter now.

 

[jbourne8]

Also, that 1996 waterproofing work looks like it's what prompted the lawsuit in 2001 from 112 over water leaks, since they're listed as the 3rd party defendants -

https://www.scribd.com/document/512921705/Wall-Damage

 

[spinspecdrt]

jbourne8, The links are not working.

 

[jbourne8]

spinspecdrt, oh strange.. they're on this site -

https://surfside.one/public-records-search/

Labeled as "BLDG Concrete structural repair P#96-4403" and "Blue Print S1"