Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10 79

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09


SF Charlie
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[Seppe]

But preventing the public for seeing what's going on, seem above and beyond...

So you are 100% certain that there hasn't been selective access allowed for certain relevant parties on a need-driven basis?

What would be the justification/precedent for some random entity with a drone to be given permission to tool around above the site (which presumably is still privately owned), "just because"?

And on a broader scale, what exactly does Miami-Dade owe Joe Public when it comes to photographs of damage to the structure? Since when is the burden on a municipality to compile and present all of this information out there for everyone and their brother to see, when we know it is an event that is clearly still under investigation?

In the absence of a public records request, the State/County isn't going to be compelled to share volumes and volumes of information. And even then, does every scrap and strand of information related to the collapse fall under the domain of public record? Likely not.

Maybe I've misunderstood your argument. If I have, I apologize.

 

[zebraso]

compare the over pressure of a sonic boom with the pressure applied by a jack hammer

The Air Force has been subject to liability claims of property damage from sonic booms since the 1960's. One paper from the Journal of Air Law and Commerce on torts and liability concerning sonic booms from 1970 states:
That sonic boom is capable of causing property damage is a proposition that cannot be doubted. The claimant seeking relief under the FTCA, assuming that the burden of proof with respect to the discretionary exception function has been sustained or waived, is still faced with the evidentiary difficulty of establishing the necessary elements of his case.

Also from the same article:
However, in a 1964 case, the court held that the United States
could not be held negligent for the mere creation of a sonic boom. A
failure to prove "negligence or wrongful act" on the part of the government would prohibit the application of the doctrine of "res ipsa loquitur."

From what it sounds like all the cases were about relatively minor damage, but structural damage is not ruled out as a possibility. Apparently there was a case of structural damage a control tower which was the repeated focus of energy. From what I read of that it involved sheet steel. The EPA did a study on the Effects of Sonic Boom and Similar Impulsive Noise on Structures as long ago as 1971, but I could not find the actual text of it.

 

[MechinNC]

Guys, passenger aircraft flying out of MIA do not and can not go supersonic, and make a sonic boom. If they could get to mach 1 or beyond, they start to break apart.

This airliner stuff is silly.

If an airliner hit the building, the would be aircraft chunks all over the wreckage.

If military aircraft left a sonic boom (and many can), thousands of folks would have heard (felt) it and 911 would have been going nutz. Military pilots are not allowed to go supersonic except in training areas, over the sea, actual war, etc. Military takes this seriously and if a hot-dogging pilot breaks the rules, he's out of a job. (this from Pops, ex-fighter pilot)

Geez. Completely in the weeds.

 

[zebraso]

This airliner stuff is silly

Yes. Airliners do not reach anywhere near Mach 1. F-16 and F-15 are still at Homestead though - think. I see the question being posed as the remotest of possibilities, if for no other reason than no one heard a sonic boom per se. What we have is people hearing booms and claiming aircraft noise. So down the rabbit hole we go.

"if a hot-dogging pilot breaks the rules, he's out of a job."

Keep a good thought. Didn't prevent the 1998 Cavalese cable car disaster. Pilot and co-pilot were acquitted but they were found guilty of destroying evidence and obstruction of justice.

 

[Demented]

If there were any thunderous booms, it was probably thunder. Especially in the rainy season.

 

[zebraso]

Yeah. It's fair to say that the idea of a sonic boom as any causality is moot. It's ridiculous on the face of it. It would have been more widely heard and felt. And the ability to damage a normal structure on this level is an impossibility anyway. Who brought this up?

 

[Demented]

I'm more curious how it went from sounds like plane to sonic booms in under 24h. Seems there's a lot of laziness by certain parties to even properly copy quoted text from people and the shit just flings from there. *shrugs*

Anyway, shit, unless a JT9 was actually strapped on a test stand to the deck, passenger planes are so high by this point a slammed door will make the place rattle more.

 

[Red Corona]

Did anyone look at that newly released body cam footage and see if there's anything interesting? I guess most of the time is spent in (structurally) uninteresting areas, kind of by definition the interesting areas were inaccessible because they were under the collapse.

 

[Optical98]

The post in question

 

[Santos81]

This airliner stuff is silly.

It’s not just silly, it’s absurd.

Special for you Optical98 with geographic label’s and all.

This is a great example of the current WINCO2 SID amended with PBN1 approval. No De-Rate T/O thrust, max climb rate, quickly cleaned up and accel to 250kts/no-delay. The turn from SENOY to SIMBA rolls out perfectly abeam CTS at 5000ft.

https://youtu.be/5b1HfFgKL1A

This is the last I’ll comment on such nonsense.

 

[gonefishing2]

Ok, no supersonic booms here, but back in the 1960's this baby would shake the ground for miles during static firings. It would break glass windows 20 miles away.... Video link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rP6k18DVdg

 

[Optical98]

Here's your study SF Charlie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4vM75rSPJs

Santos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QO2pzmFW8DI

"silly and absurd"

MIAMI, FLORIDA
"On December 14th, the municipalities/cities of North Miami, Indian Creek, Surfside, Bay Harbor Islands, North Bay Village, Biscayne Point, and North Miami Beach simultaneously filed suit, via Petitions for Review, against the FAA and their ill-conceived MetroPlex Program over Miami Dade. The Petitions/Suits cited major issues with both the FAA's process, route strategy, environmental assessment, communication with the public (or lack there of), among other major flaws."

Take up your issues with these cities and townships, and stop harassing me.

 

[Jedidad]

back in the 1960's this baby would shake the ground for miles during static firings. It would break glass windows 30 miles away.

But no buildings fell down.

 

[Demented]

Optical, I've lived in that flight path. I now live in a different one, but damn near the same pattern and altitudes. Santos said he still lives on that Miami path and if it really was that bad, I'm pretty sure he'd tell us. Out here on the shore, you can barely even hear the jets at times, the wind and waves often louder. The business class jets fly lower, and sure, some small single engines fly 500-750ft away some times too, but planes aren't an issue here. More inland directly next to the airports, yeah, it gets loud and shaky there.

I've spooled up a T50 in a residential house before. Loud as all hell but meh. A nitrous fed 505ci dumping the bangs out of a 3.5" pipe on each side, now that shook some shit around.

Edit: But then again, deaf machinist says what?

 

[SFCharlie]

So you are 100% certain that there hasn't been selective access allowed for certain relevant parties on a need-driven basis?

I'm very certain that NIST has had access as I posted in a link above.
I'm also certain that the town of surfside has not had access nor the press.
Miami-Dade made no such attempt to limit access to the FIU bridge site.

Since when is the burden on a municipality to compile and present all of this information out there for everyone and their brother to see, when we know it is an event that is clearly still under investigation?

IMnvHO It is not that Miami-Dade should "compile and present", but what is their justification to prevent the Town of Surfside, the lawyers for the bereaved, the press, from photographing the aftermath? In a normal crime, yes, you want to be able to use the fact that a suspect knew something that had not been made public, but how could that apply here?

The site has been cleaned of remains. As far as I can tell, nothing is happening, why do they need to keep t a crime scene for 3 more weeks?

Of course, they may need to file fill the foundation with water or soil to keep it from collapsing, but that's a safety issue, not a criminal one.

SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

Here's your study SF Charlie

You're using comedians as sources?


SF Charlie
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[Optical98]

SF Charlie

"You're using comedians as sources?"

What is your source, eh?

 

[Santos81]

What is your source, eh?

https://youtu.be/fSVJFyA0BKY

 

[SFCharlie]

judge-says-preserving-evidence-critical-to-getting-to-bottom-of-surfside-collapse

"Judge Michael Hanzman said at a hearing that evidence will be available to determine the cause of the June 24 oceanfront condo collapse, as well as for lawsuits filed in the aftermath."

 

[SFCharlie]

Levity is Also a Perversion

Nice!

SF Charlie
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