Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12 60

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11

SF Charlie
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[dik]

too close to KFC?

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[AusG]

Ok here's a question. Once the slab has collapsed as per the tiktok and survivor accounts it is no longer pulling catenary-wise on the columns. Whatever lateral damage can be caused by the falling slab is done by that point. Is it more likely that the building survives those next 14 minutes with one or two columns gone, or that the extra buckling in unsupported columns could bring it down 14 minutes later?

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

AusG, first it was maybe only 5 to 7 minutes from deck collapse to building collapse.

Most likely the falling 12"x16" column M11.1 weakened or crippled the 16"x16" M9.1/M10 via yanking on the beam connecting them as the skinnier column was destroyed by the deck collapse, and shown missing in the tourist video. I think that the smaller column severely damaged the 16"x16" to the point that it made that now-weakened and de-rated 16"x16" column a few minutes later begin to buckle and crumble, now that they are no longer rated to do the job they have been doing up to this point.

 

[MaudSTL]

The deck collapsed at 1:15 AM or so and the building collapsed at 1:22 AM, so about seven minutes elapsed between those two events. During that time witnesses say the building was shaking and rumbling.

Here’s the CTS Collapse Witness Statement Timeline for your reference.

 

[dik]

It may have been with the collapse of the deck that the deck pulled the tower supporting columns as shown in the one animation and this precipitated the tower collapse. Due to possible underdesign and definite criminal lack of maintenance the building collapsed. Whatever triggered the event is really immaterial. It was the straw that broke...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[AusG]

I misremembered the time interval, my bad. Dik the gap, whatever time it is matters though. Was it a time gap while the building stood with missing columns, or stood before the columns buckled and quit? Jeff's sequence of deck-column-beam-column-total collapse is interesting. I noted in various pics there is some rubble under that "C" of short beams that was left uncollected for some time, so it was not exactly the first thing to fall in the main building, although most other rubble looked later again.

 

[dik]

I'm not so sure that either 10 seconds or 10 minutes has any bearing... the stage was set; it could have been Lorenz' butterfly.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[AusG]

I'm on record here agreeing with that basic point: it was poised to fall by this point. I'm just noting that once the deck is down there is no more catenary pull, so either it took another 7 minutes to (fail to) load shift with missing column(s) or 7 minutes to buckle those columns, and I was wondering from our SE contingent which was more likely. It may be an unanswerable question and so be it.

 

[Nukeman948]

I have always had a problem with the term "missing column". Even if the concrete completely crumbled wouldn't there still be rebar that would buckle? There was rebar coming up through the slab and the splice should have been above the next slab and I can't see all that rebar getting sheared off or pulled out and the column simply falling over. Of course rebar can be sheared off like at the shear wall as the building fell, but that is a different situation from a column getting bumped by a car or catenary forces from the pool deck.

 

[MaudSTL]

USA Today has analyzed Surfside Building Div. records, some of which have gone missing from a storage facility, communications involving Ross Prieto, and issues around code enforcement.

Defunct and disorganized: Surfside town records detail woes of code, building departments

 

[SFCharlie]

A link in the article, that Maud posted just above: had slipped past me.
It has nice 3d perspective art for the floor plan, with location of the victims, and tears.
A vertical neighborhood: Floor-by-floor look at the lives lost and dreams shattered by Florida condo collapse
(maybe Maud will share the magic of how to make a link to bypass the firewall? Thanks)

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

I don't know if you folks have heard over the last few weeks but the mayor of surfside has been whining in the news for a few weeks about how Miami Dade PD won't allow him or his engineering company World-renowned civil engineer Allyn Kilsheimer who investigated the 9/11 Pentagon attack and the FIU bridge collapse, to enter the collapsed condo property at all.

Miami Dade police have been keeping that place solid nobody goes in or out. And I listened in the other day to a Surfside Commission meeting where the entire Commission wasted 1/2 hour of time bickering back and forth trying to figure out why won't they let us in blah blah blah.
These people are totally clueless they don't realize that they are the subject of a criminal investigation and I think their heads are buried in the sand on this one. And the reason why they are the result of a criminal investigation is because like we've mentioned before here on the forum, all sorts of records are missing from the city!
And, they don't know if missing records are due to that former city inspector Ross Prieto who had the keys to the warehouse under his name, whether he is the reason they are missing but right now everybody is suspect including anybody that the city would hire even though Alan has a very good reputation in the business.

That being said, Alan did visit the sister property, the Champlain towers north which has almost the same floor plan, and he did take all sorts of core samples there and I guess we're waiting to hear back from the results of that, but so far he feels that building is not in any danger of collapsing. the scuttlebutt I had heard from over the years was that maintenance was completed in a timely manner in the north towers, as that homeowners association was more on the ball and when things broke down they fixed them there not let needed repairs sit there in fester for years.

 

[SFCharlie]

I have processed ACI 318-56 into two smaller searchable .pdf files, Be careful with formulas, they have been thru a tortured process Adobe converted pdf to OCRed Word, I manually remove the shadows of the "gutter" between the pages of the book, Word saved as .pdf.
(only one attachment per post - Part 1

SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

Part 2
I have processed ACI 318-56 into two smaller searchable .pdf files, Be careful with formulas, they have been thru a tortured process Adobe converted pdf to OCRed Word, I manually remove the shadows of the "gutter" between the pages of the book, Word saved as .pdf.
(only one attachment per post - Part 2

SF Charlie
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[SFCharlie]

If there is a particular page, image, table, or formula etc. in ACI 318-56, that you wish to see the original, that's easy.
Just Identify the page clearly, and I'll post its image...

SF Charlie
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[MaudSTL]

…nice 3d perspective art for the floor plan, with location of the victims, and tears.

Here’s an archived version. This piece was never updated with final status info…it shows people as Missing who have been recovered Deceased. A vertical neighborhood: Floor-by-floor look at the lives lost and dreams shattered by Florida condo collapse

 

[MaudSTL]

Archiving the Contents of a URL

Pros
A utility at [link archive.today]archive.today[/url] takes a snapshot of the contents of a URL and stores it. This has several benefits, e.g. developing news stories can be archived multiple times as the story unfolds and information on the URL is updated. It will also archive an article that is on a site with a “number of free articles” counter on it. It will retain the archive even if the original URL is taken down.

Cons
[link Archive.today]Archive.today[/url] will not archive an article behind a true firewall requiring a login, e.g. WSJ, etc. Sometimes videos within the content will play and sometimes they won’t. Embedded hyperlinks may or may not work. Interactive graphics don’t work interactively…they will be static graphics.

Steps
[ol 1]
[li]Copy the URL you want to archive[/li]
[li]Access [link Archive.today]archive.today[/url][/li]
[li]Paste the URL in the “I want to search the archive for saved snapshots” field and click Search[/li]
[li]Complete the CAPTCHA[/li]
[li]If the archive DOES contain one or more snapshots, select from the existing options and then copy its URL[/li]
[li]If the archive does NOT contain existing snapshots, click the hyperlink “Archive this URL,” click Save in the “My URL is alive and I want to archive its contents” field, wait for the archive to be written, and then copy the URL[/li]
[/ol]

 

[Spartan5]

Are all of these ACI documents being circulated in their entirety here not copy written material?

 

[AutisticBez]

AusG,

So the columns that failed were overcrowded with rebar? This making them weaker then they should be? Its clearly out of code right?

What about the connection point with the beam under the planters? Also, exactly where does the splice occur? Is the splice just above the beam?

 

[SFCharlie]

When I was traveling regularly for business, Almost everywhere I stayed, had copies of USAToday. Maybe because their audience consists of middle class vacationer and also business men, they seem to steer away from extremes. Even today, I find myself read articles on my many diverse interest in USAToday. I find them well written, well researched, and factual. I recommend that you subscribe as I have. Here is a sample of their work:
Beyond the firewall
A link in the article, that Maud posted just above: had slipped past me.
It has nice 3d perspective art for the floor plan, with location of the victims, and tears.
A vertical neighborhood: Floor-by-floor look at the lives lost and dreams shattered by Florida condo collapse

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies