Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15 32

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14

SF Charlie
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[MaudSTL]

I could imagine it smelled like everything.

Exactly. Anyone who has ever helped sandbag during a major flood, as I have, can tell you that floodwater has an indescribable and potent smell. Raw sewage, all the petroleum spills that ever happened in the area, and rot/death combine to make a heady, nauseating stench. Tossing in Tesla and other car batteries would make it extreme.

 

[Demented]

All the Stachybotrys hiding in the darkness of the waterlogged structure that was violently thrown out into the open.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

Charlie, I always get nervous when you end one chapter and start the next one because I see this message "PLEASE STOP POSTING IN THIS PART 14 PLEASE" and I think it's directed at me LOL!
"

 

[spsalso]

Jeff,

It's not you. It's us.


spsalso

 

[Keith_1]

If they did not use sheet piles I could actually imagine an instance (Not a very likely one) where the foundation was undermined. Any kid that has tried to build a sandcastle knows that it is really hard to dig a hole on the beach. Sheet piles and big pumps are necessary to do basically anything in this area.

 

[AutisticBez]

The lithium batteries in a Tesla do have a really bad smell. The fumes have an effect on mental well-being. Exposure is unhealthy.

 

[Demented]

If they did not use sheet piles I could actually imagine an instance (Not a very likely one) where the foundation was undermined. Any kid that has tried to build a sandcastle knows that it is really hard to dig a hole on the beach. Sheet piles and big pumps are necessary to do basically anything in this area.

Steel sheet pile walls have a life expectancy of what, 40 years in a highly corrosive environment before they're at 10% uncorroded mass?

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[SFCharlie]

Thanks for the info. All the sulfuric acid in the rest of the cars cannot have helped...

SF Charlie
Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

 

[Demented]

Sulfuric acid is odorless. A single Tesla is also only going to contain ~40lbs +/- 5lbs of Lithium metal.
The majority of the scents would have been for the most part, building materials, and not automotive. Buried under multiple floors of concrete, I doubt even the smell of burnt dif fluid would have been getting out the rubble pile any time shortly after the collapse.

 

[Red Corona]

@Demented - if the piling under that perimeter wall had degraded so it was no longer providing the proper lateral bracing for the deck, could that have resulted in the collapse? I don't think so, that would surely have pulled the deck away from the building and you'd see columns pulled over, not punched through.

 

[Demented]

Waterflow under the foundation is the issue at hand with that. Nothing to do with support for the deck/wall connection.

 

[dik]

Life can be much longer with proper coating systems or cathodic protection. A design sacrificial surface can be included.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Optical98]

The Disappearance of 87th Terrace and How it Relates to Surfside Collapse - Lawsuit Analysis Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1U0D9rCaLvY

 

[Demented]

Life can be much longer with proper coating systems or cathodic protection. A design sacrificial surface can be included.

What would that likely bring the maximum life expectancy to, and serviceability of the anodes?

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge

 

[AusG]

Tesla batteries contain Li Co Ni & Al oxides and altogether weigh 900lb. The electrolyte may be a range of possibilities (not suggesting its a State Secret, just more complicated than I have time to research) but the following paras:

"Most of the electrolytes used in commercial lithium-ion batteries are non-aqueous solutions, in which Lithium hexafluorophosphate (LiPF6) salt dissolved in organic carbonates, in particular, mixtures of ethylene carbonate (EC) with dimethyl carbonate (DMC), propylene carbonate (PC), diethyl carbonate (DEC), and/or ethyl methyl carbonate (EMC) .
...
Organic fluoro-compounds are one of the most promising electrolyte solvents for high voltage condition, because fluorinated molecules have higher oxidation potentials due to the strong electron-withdrawing effect of the fluorine atom .
"
suggest you'd be a brave person to bet on what it will smell like under duress.
(quotes from here:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2468025716300218

)

 

[Optical98]

The only Tesla we have documented proof of was parked under the uncollapsed southwest corner of the building.
It 'may' have caused some fires after the demolition but was certainly not part of the initial collapse.

 

[Optical98]

New Miami Herald article

Champlain Model Explained

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/special-reports/surfside-investigation/article256178672.html

 

[MaudSTL]

In the Nov. 30 Miami Herald overview of their collapse models, they draw two conclusions that are at odds with the witness statements documented since July 27 in the Timeline of Witness Statements. Journalism being what it is these days, their witness narrative is likely to be taken as the de facto standard despite these discrepancies.

1. The Miami Herald ignores the late Elena Blassner’s (1211) report of unusual loud noises the morning before the collapse, and also Chani Nir’s (111) statement that she heard banging as soon as she got home at about 11 PM. Instead they start the narrative clock when Sarah and Gabe Nir get home around 12:30 AM.

2. The Miami Herald states that the loud crash heard before the deck collapse occurred at 1:14 AM instead of 1:10 AM. This is in conflict with multiple contemporaneous statements by Sarah Nir, who was using WhatsApp at the time and looking at the clock. She said in several interviews that the first crash happened at 1:10 AM, and that she then worked up her ire and went to the lobby at 1:14 to complain to Security Guard Shamoka Furman. Shamoka has never stated a time of that crash, which she also heard in the lobby.

I am not updating the Timeline with the Miami Herald’s slightly improved narrative. Both NIST and KCE have access to the Timeline, and I believe it should be maintained as accurately as possible no matter what the Miami Herald writes five months later. These discrepancies are not based on new information; they are instead, in my opinion, editorial decisions to avoid having to muddy a clean narrative with outlier information.

 

[Demented]

Seems they've found a source of WAG's and are running full steam with it.

Precision guess work based on information provided by those of questionable knowledge