Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 19 27

[SFCharlie]

A continuation of our discussion of this failure. Best to read the other threads first to avoid rehashing things already discussed.
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 02
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 03
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 04
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 05
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 06
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 07
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 08
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 09
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 10
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 11
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 12
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 13
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 14
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 15
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 16
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 17
Miami Beach, Champlain Towers South apartment building collapse, Part 18

 

[lexpatrie]

I didn't mean it was causing anything I meant was backstay discussed at any point in here. It doesn't seem like backstay was around as a concept during the original design timeframe. I haven't found any literature that far back. All I found was a 2010 document involving seismic design. I guess Adebar mentions it in 2008, but I don't see any references back in his citations.

Design of High-Rise Core-Wall Buildings: A Canadian Perspective, Adebar, 14th World Conference on Earthquake Engineering, October 2008.

Alright, now I do. Never mind I think I got it traced back to at least 1983.

Force Distribution Between the Core and Subgrade Structure of High Rise Buildings Subjected to Lateral Load Induced Forces - Bevan-Pitchard, Man, Anderson, Proceedings of 4th Canadian Conference on Earthquake Engineering, 1983.

Bevan-Pritchard doesn't cite any other published research....

 

[Nukeman948]

I have followed this thread from the beginning and I don't remember backstay being mentioned at all. Since backstay would apply to buildings subjected to large lateral forces, and with no theory for how a lateral force was applied to this building but no other buildings in the area, it would seem that there may be other threads on this forum that would be better suited to the discussion of backstay design considerations.

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[zebraso]

The structural engineer could've known what was happening but was paid to ignore it!

So instead of negligence then, we would be broaching the subject of criminal malfeasance. Very interesting. It would seem only reasonable and responsible to consider this possibility.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

The agenda for the next NIST NCST meeting is out, they will be talking on March 7:

https://www.nist.gov/system/files/d...tachment 1_ NCSTAC March 2024 Agenda.docx.pdf

They got a busy agenda, starts at 9 am and runs until 5 pm, much more than the September update, and looks like they got a ton more of speakers lined up, and most of the individual project managers from within the investigation. This should be a very meaty discussion.

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

Maude, here is the latest timeline time stamps showing the initiation of the east tower collapse at 1:22:17 AM, and the time stamps of the related security cameras, including the new security camera video they acquired in December, from the 87 Park condo next door, looking down the beach access boardwalk along the south side of the pool.

They also show the time stamps of the security camera from inside the corridor.

Do you need to adjust any time stamps on the spreadsheet based in any of these latest times?

 

[Sym P. le]

Vimeo of NIST meeting - [URL unfurl="true"]https://vimeo.com/event/4119207[/url]

Included is some more video analysis including a color image of RING camera unit from the day before collapse.

 

[JStephen]

Related article:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/investigators-tenant-garage-below-collapsed-212528467.html

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

I am waiting for my video to upload to youtube, where I summarized the meeting among other things, and reviewed the new security camera videos they found.

 

[dik]

Can you post a link?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

People here don't like it when I post links to my videos. Just look me up on YouTube, my video finished uploading just now!

 

[dik]

Jeff Ostroff? or does it have a title?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Jeff Ostroff]

It is called "Miami Condo Collapse NEW Security Camera Video, Analysis Updates"

unless I need to change it later for SEO purposes, but that is the title of it for now

 

[dik]

Thanks... will take a gander.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

It's a pretty good write up... a couple of minor issues, but generally OK.

I have a couple of real issues with this:
[ul]
[li]The condo owners should be compensated for their loss and there does not seem to be anything in place.[/li]
[li]The EOR made several serious errors. For this reason, their liability insurance should provide compensation.[/li]
[li]There is no responsibility of the condominium board, and they should be charged with negligent homicide. Failure was a result of their inaction.[/li]
[/ul]

If this doesn't happen, it will occur in future.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[IRstuff]

Jeff's video's link is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUx7LApAQe4&t=522s

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list

http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

 

[MaudSTL]

@Jeff Ostroff.

Thanks for calling out the timeline detail. I have been so busy renovating my 1903 house (which will definitely collapse in a major earthquake, because it’s full masonry) that I have been paying no attention to this topic.

I checked the timeline spreadsheet, and it looks like I can add the seconds to it to make it match the NIST timeline.

I have to say that I am proud to have been able to provide to this forum for nearly two years what has proven to be an accurate and thorough witness timeline, despite having had to rely on media quotations instead of on personal interviews.

 

[MaudSTL]

There is no responsibility of the condominium board, and they should be charged with negligent homicide. Failure was a result of their inaction.

That won’t hold up. The Board was constantly thwarted by the condo owners themselves, who refused to support proposals to make necessary structural repairs. They only wanted to pay for a pretty lobby update. One of the previous Board presidents resigned, moved out, and sold her unit in disgust. The condo owners were in many cases elderly and unable to afford assessments, and in other cases LLCs who acquired their units as investments and planned to take their profits and then sell without paying major assessments.

The sad and terrible reality is that the condo unit owners in essence brought about their own doom by failing to agree to assessments over the years.

 

[3DDave]

It would have been in the authority of the board to have started condemnation proceedings to get the building evacuated for structural problems long before the collapse. This would have driven the LLCs to act to protect their investment.

 

[dik]

Thanks...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[MaudSTL]

I’ve been going through the presentations and recordings.

In relation to the Witness Statement Timeline, note that the crash at 1:10 AM is not called out in the NIST timeline, even though they are being very careful to keep their options open regarding the possible location (tower or deck) of the initiating event. We know from the media that this crash was heard by Shamoka Furman in the lobby and by the Nirs in 111. It is what triggered Sara Nir to go to the lobby, where she and Shamoka were when the pool and car deck collapsed at 1:15. I am leaving the 1:10 crash on the spreadsheet.

From a witness statement perspective, among the most helpful images were those of the engineer Paolo Longobardi, who apparently drew his perceptions of deck collapse origin and progression as viewed from Unit 309. We had already captured his verbal description on the spreadsheet, which for some reason NIST claims was not reported in the media.

New to me was the description of horizontal cracks in the building facade and the first floor glass exploding. I can’t tell whose observation this was, although the likely witness is Paolo Longobardi, or exactly when this observation was made (after the deck collapse? It’s confusing because the Longobardis were evacuating via the east staircase.) I will try to figure out how to add this to the spreadsheet.

Here is the current NIST failure sequence slide, which relies strongly on the synchronization of all the videos they currently have on hand.

In the discussion recordings, there is a discussion of the banging sounds heard prior to 1 AM. Dr. Ganapati refers to “he” as the source. This makes it sound like the Nirs are relying on Gabe to be the family spokesperson, rather than allowing Sara and Chani to contribute individually. If this is true, it explains why they don’t pick up on Chani’s statement that she heard banging sounds as soon as she got home from babysitting at around 11 PM. It doesn’t explain why they don’t call out the 1:10 AM crash that sent Sara to the lobby, as they all heard it. If it’s revisionism, it may be an example of why eyewitness testimony is so unreliable. I was dismissed from a voir dire once for stating that under oath. We may learn more six months from now.