Never accept first offer? 2

[floattuber]

I've often heard not to accept the first salary offer, but obviously there are exceptions for everything. Recently I received an offer from a major aerospace company and I consider it acceptable. Salary.com says it's within the range I should be getting for the area.

However, I can't help but think I could be getting a couple thousand more. Every company expects the candidate to come back with a higher number, right? So the question is should I negotiate?

 

[MikeHalloran]

In today's job market, unless I had something they really wanted and couldn't get elsewhere, I wouldn't.

You'd know if you were in such a strong position because they'd extend the offer verbally at the end of your interview, before you left the premises. At that time, you could do some face- to- face horse trading. An offer that comes some time after an interview is probably is not very flexible.

A major company gives managers only limited range for negotiation, so you couldn't get a big bump unless:
- you could prove you're qualified for some higher rate
- such a slot exists locally
- it doesn't break the budget
- it wouldn't piss off your new peers



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[jmw]

Hmmm.
I'm generally the one to say that the job interview session is probably your only real chance at salary negotiations and is where you set the salary scale for yourself for the next several years and so yes, you could negotiate ... maybe.

On the other hand, when you've been in the same job for some time you will find you are slipping behind the market so the point is that these negotiations are really about catch-up. It seems to me that from what you've researched that this is a fair offer and you've caught up.You might also see it as a sign that the HR department here knows where it is in the market and what is fair and reasonable. In which case you won't win any friends by trying to shift the envelope.

What you may have to do is assure yourself that once you are employed that they continue to treat you fairly.

So what is a couple of thou in percentage terms? probably not more than point scoring and pursuing it may actually be counter productive.

Negotiating might be taking one gamble too many. I've known companies withdraw all offers if a good offer is seriously challenged.

On balance, with a fair offer that shows you a good gain over your current employment situation, I'd suggest you don't negotiate but say "Thanks, when do I start?"

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[floattuber]

Thank you much. It's actually a bit of a pay cut but I'm going from one of the most expensive parts of the country to a more reasonable place so I'm OK with that.

Other than money, the only other thing I'd like to ask for is time off in 2008 for a big vacation I would like to take. I'd take it without pay if I don't have vacation time accrued by then...that doesn't bother me.

 

[johnsmith2]

I don't think it is a good idea to ask for the vacation ahead, without starting to work here.

If you are a new graduate, don't ask for more, unless you are sure you are un-pay. Otherwise,I heard some companies withdraw offers if the good offer is challenged.

 

[floattuber]

No, not a new grad. Been out of school for 6 years now, but this will only be my second real job.

 

[IRstuff]

Just bear in mind that large aerospace companies tend to collude on pay increases. They've been running about 4.5% for many years now.

TTFN

 

[MedicineEng]

Another way to negotiate is instead of asking the increase upfront you get a deal like after 6 months your salary is revised X% (stated in your contract). Like that you have already something to show to them and they become more confortable with it.
And yes, don't ask holidays in advance. From today until 2008 many things can happen and you might not be able to fulfill your plan, so why make them already angry. First, deliver, then demand.

 

[cousink]

Okay, instead of asking for an extra dollar per hour, your could ask them to give you an extra week of PTO per year, you know... If you're supposed to be leaving on good terms with your previous employer, you're also abandoning your earned equity of benefits, as well.

You might keep an open mind. When a senior manager joined our company, he started with 15 days of vacation credit, while many, many other employees, including me, started at zero hours.

 

[cousink]

Everything is negotiable. A friend of mine negotiated three weeks of comp time in advance of his three week trip to his wife's home in Africa. He's a hard worker. He worked extra hours for a few weeks so that he could keep his plans.

If your expertise is in demand and you're a hard worker, a potential employer should be thankful you're considering his offer to join up. You do not have to put yourself in a corner.

 

[metengr]

I've often heard not to accept the first salary offer, but obviously there are exceptions for everything.

Myth.

However, I can't help but think I could be getting a couple thousand more.

This means you did not do a good job of researching your salary requirements for the job.

Every company expects the candidate to come back with a higher number, right?

Wrong.

So the question is should I negotiate?

If you feel, based on your salary requirements, that the offer is too low, yes. But you better have done your homework.

 

[Beggar]

... (maybe) getting a couple thousand more.

So, that would net out to say $140 per month. If you like the job and you like the company and you like the location, would you really choose to risk it for $140 per month?

No, there is no expectation that you should reject the first offer, especially in the present market.

You do risk having them yank the offer altogether. I learned this one the hard way.

About three years ago I'd applied for a job I really wanted. I received an offer that was about 10% less than I was looking for. For many reasons, I thought that the higher salary was justified. Presuming that "there's no harm in asking," I wrote out a letter telling them how excited I was about the position but asking them to consider (mind you, only consider) matching the salary I'd had just before my plant closed. I provided a list of why I thought that justified. A few days later, after no reply, I began to worry. A couple days after that, HR called and said that they'd decided to rescind the offer. I ended up stuck in a crappy job for another year before I found something better.

If you like the job, take it. If you're somewhat ambivalent, consider negotiating.



--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[floattuber]

Thank you all. I just accepted the offer.

 

[kchayfie]

Congratulations and good luck in your new job!

 

[Beggar]

Good for you, floattuber.

--------------------
How much do YOU owe?

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

--------------------

 

[TheTick]

Respectfully, if "never accept the first offer" is the basis for starting a negotiation, then there simply is no basis for negotiation.

 

[MintJulep]

Well too late now I guess, but the relocation and relative cost-of-living could have been your excuse.

"Thank you for your offer. Subsequent to its receipt I have done some research on the comparitive cost of living between my current residence and New Town. It appears that after adjustment, your offer is not comparable to my current salary."

 

[sms]

Yes, too late now, but if you have a job, and you are relatively happy with your current situation, as far as I am concerned you are in the drivers seat. Ask for what you want, and if they don't want you bad enough go find someone who does.

My last move earned me a big raise and a really nice sign on bonus. I would have received neither if I had not negotiated.

Engineers, are so negative about the job situation. A guy looking for a sales or a marketing job wouldn't dream of not negotiating.

-The future's so bright I gotta wear shades!

 

[Ashereng]

Congrats!

On your next job offer, if you have a "compensation package" in mind, and the first offer meets all of your criteria, I would suggest that you take it.

In my mind, it shows:
1) you know what the going rate is
2) you know what you want
3) you are not greedy
4) you appreciate your potential employer dealing in good faith

If I am the employer making the offer, I would appreciate an employee who recognises a good offer when they see one.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[HVACctrl]

I've almost always negotiated. Almost always they have come up at least a little. Two times they didn't budge, but I took the job anyway. On time it was very frustrating because the owner offered me the job at a certain salary (which was the exact number I taold him I was already making), but he mentioned that he was "very flexible". Maybe there was some miscommunication because he wasn't. That price was all he would do.

Some people think that employers will not respect you if you don't negotiate.

In my current job, which was something I really wanted, prior to our second and final interview, the boss told me that we had to make sure we were financially compatible. I just came out and told her what I currently made and that I would prefer not to drop down any. She stated that the budget only allowed for a max of $10,000 less than what I currently made, but that she would try to get approval for the same as what I made.

She got it and I am happy about that.

It may all depend on your scenario. I knew going in that they might have trouble even reaching my current salry, so of course there was no room to negotiate when they did meet it.

But, in other scenarios, I often negotiated. Most often, they came up some. When they didn't, it wasn't a deal breaker and there were no hard feelings.

Ed

Ed

http://www.engineerboards.com