NOOOOOO NX9 use ribbon interface 30

[Millimeter]

I thought at first that the user would have complete control over customization.
But not being able to fully customize the interface like SW is disappointing.

Now I'm wondering...
If I have only limited control about how much space some icons occupy and its spatial position and grouping in the interface, wouldn't be the current interface much more productive?

 

[JohnRBaker]

There's nothing preventing you from replacing all of the Large icons (with text) with small icons (without text), or move everything into a gallery where you can use small, medium or large icons (with or without text). Not sure how much more 'customizable' we can make it.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[frankbe]

Hi John,

As a Beta Tester we're not allowed to say anything, but since you already mentioned some things I thought I might jump in.
I'm actually trying out small icons without text as we speak. And I must say I like it a LOT. Everything can be grouped very nicely with the extra advantage that you cannot accidentally move around the groups. And as John already mentioned, you can create your own stuff and throw out the standards if those don't fit your personal needs.
Everything is better organised, better visibility and more icons per "real estate"

How do you say it John? Something like not being the first per se but rather being the best.
Well as for being customizable, it's VERY good the new ribbon bar, probably the best out there.

Greetings,
Frank

2x NX8.5.1.3 Mach Design
on win7 64bit and MBP MacOS 10.8.3
NX Beta Tester
1x Solid Edge ST2

 

[JohnRBaker]

Years ago (when we were still part of McDonnell Douglas) our development manager once stated that he'd rather be "late but great". And while many of us didn't necessarily agree with him, when you look back at who our competitors were at the time and then look around to see where those companies and products are today, you have to admit that perhaps there was something to what he said.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[Vikingbro]

As someone that got to see the demo in Dallas, I cannot wait to see the new UI in NX 9.0.

I have shown the pictures that John Baker posted to a couple of people here, and they can't wait either.

Chris Cooper
Senior CAD Specialist
Cleveland Golf/Srixon

http://www.clevelandgolf.com

 

[HercalloY]

I think my main gripes with Ribbon 'anything' is that there are three main aspects that really annoy me.

1) You are limited to using the top of the screen only. No matter where your cursor is... you have to move it all the way to the top to enter a command. As opposed to what i can do now... I have the ability to have buttons all around my UI. The most used ones (like sketching for example) are on the side where my cursor seems to usually "sit". And it just seems to help/be more usable/be less annoying.

2) You are forced to click more to achieve the same. You have to click two (and sometimes three) times to start a command as opposed to what i can do now.... ONCE! This is really frustrating to me. I don't care how flashy the UI is. If it requires more clicks to do the same thing.. its annoying. Don't get me wrong.. i'm not a big proponent of clicks=productivity. Because this isn't the case. It's simply frustrating as a user to be able to achieve any command with one click... and then have to use multiple clicks just to start a command like as if you are forced to use a pull-down menu for EVERYTHING but lack the organizational benefits of the pull-down menu system (because most Ribbon UI's are poorly grouped and have been painful in that regard also).

And finally...

3) I can have as many (or as few) commands showing and all be a single press away. This allows me to have great tool/command discovery and flexibility and not 'forget' that i have this tool or that tool at my disposal even if i rarely use it. All while taking up stuff all screen real estate.

Now i'm all for UI change for the better. But the Ribbon is (thus far) seems to only cater to Joe Sheep that doesn't care about computers. He's just there to stuff around and make a pretty picture for his boss or daughter while the real users have to put up with it simply because its new. An example of "new" UI elements for the better are the radial style toolbars or the pop-up selection toolbars. Those things are great UI additions. They give you options and don't take away functionality or abilities.

By the looks of it Siemen's are at least looking at the Ribbon style with a bit more professionalism and making it more usable/customizable/etc. And although i will give it a fair go because of this aspect (which most Ribbon UI's don't even deserve they are that limited!) i still feel that when all is said and done it wont really be any better... just different and not quite as good.

Sometimes a change is nice even if its the same functionality because, lets face it, we sometimes get sick of the monotony. But i haven't got sick of hitting toolbar buttons yet. Especially when i have the power and flexibility to customise them in the ways i can now.

I see a few people mention SW's ribbon attempt. I loath it just like all the others. for the points mentioned above (but not limited to). Nothing beats what i current am able to do with normal toolbars. Its got nothing to do with having use toolbars for a long time and nothing to do with "not wanting to change". I'll change if its worthy of such. Just like i took to pop-up selection toolbars like a duck to water. If its not annoying and is a useful addition i'll eat it up! I just don't think the ribbon is a design that is this. Or at the very least won't be without a lot more additions and development. And having to trundle through this stage when you're already at a great stage... doesn't seem worth it. And not when i think about teh fundamental design design of the Ribbon tyle which means MANY commands won't be selectable without at least two clicks. And thats a real annoying thing from a usable point of view.

But we'll see!

 

[JohnRBaker]

Perhaps you missed where I mentioned earlier that you'll have the option of placing commonly used items on so-called 'Border Bars', such as I did here...

...with many of the Freeform Surfacing functions placed on the 'Left Border Bar', which I can access without having to leave the Modeling 'Home' Ribbon. In addition to the 'Quick-Access Bar' along the top of the screen, where you can also add and remove items, and the 'Top Border Bar', which is being used as the new 'Selection Bar' but where you can add and remove additional icons, there are also 'Left' (as seen above), 'Bottom' and 'Right' border bars. Note that these 'border bars' are application specific, meaning that you can have one set of icons defined while you're working in Modeling and a different set when creating Drawings or when defining tool paths or when creating Sheet Metal parts.

When you get your chance to look at NX 9.0 I suspect that you'll find many more ways to leverage the various UI schemes and customization options than you what you expecting, particularly if you're current perception of Ribbon interfaces are the result of looking at what other vendors have offered in the past.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[HercalloY]

John,

No i never missed where you mentioned that. I was simply stating things that i have found with all ribbon style UI's to date. And like i said... we will see. I will give it a go. And i think Siemen's are giving it the extra options it needs to be even considered a step forward. I have more trust in you guys than any other CAD developer at this point in time.

But i'm not going to blindly agree without thorough scrutiny because marketing/PR teams rarely (if ever) have my best interests as intentions. As you stated earlier... the Siemen's team don't want to be seen as being left behind so they change because of this. Not necessarily because this is a more effective or less frustrating interface to use.

 

[Millimeter]

I agree about the NX's functionality had outgrown the current interface.
Also, the J. R. Baker's clarifications and reasons had been very useful.
Beyond that this interface looks awesome, exist the necessity (IMHO) to put some "personal" order among so many icons. And the use of tabs (ribbon) help to this goal.

 

[JohnRBaker]

For those of you who have made comments, good or bad, about the new NX 9.0 'ribbon' interface, we would like to take some of this discussion off-line if possible. Could you please contact me via email (just place a couple of periods in the logical place in my 'handle' and add what you'ed expect the Siemens 'address' to be and I should get it OK)? Thanks in advance.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[capnhook]

Taking the discussion off-line is of no benefit to the users. Let's keep discussing it here, I'd like to read more some opinions please.

Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community..

[green]To the Toolmaker, your nice little cartoon drawing of your glass looks cool, but your solid model sucks. Do you want me to fix it, or are you going to take all week to get it back to me so I can get some work done?[/green]

 

[JohnRBaker]

Trust me, I have NO intentions of NOT continuing to respond in public forums, be it this one or any others, where this topic may be brought up!

That being said, there are some questions which I would like to ask people which would NOT be appropriate, at least not being appropriate based on how I interpret the usage guidelines as outlined in the 'Eng-Tips Posting Policies', for them to be asked and answered in a public forum such as this one. If you have a problem with that, then please don't email me. We'll keep our exchange strictly public, OK?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[capnhook]

??

Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community..

[green]To the Toolmaker, your nice little cartoon drawing of your glass looks cool, but your solid model sucks. Do you want me to fix it, or are you going to take all week to get it back to me so I can get some work done?[/green]

 

[JohnRBaker]

Exactly WHAT is your problem with my asking the questions that I have? Why the "??" response?

As stated previously, my request to make off-line contact has absolutely nothing to do with how I or anyone else at Siemens PLM will be responding to this or any other forum dealing with NX 9.0 and the changes being made to the UI. I simply need to ask a few questions where it would be more appropriate if they were dealt with off-line.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[cowski]

Right above the thread reply box is the reminder:

[box]No promoting, selling, recruiting or student posting[/box]

Personally, I have no problem with this discussion being here; but it could be construed as "promoting" since we are discussing the various merits of beta software. I respect John's decision to abide by eng-tips policies by taking this discussion off-line. If you want to keep it a public discussion (which I also think would be good), perhaps someone can start a thread in GTAC's NX CAD support forum...

www.nxjournaling.com

 

[JohnRBaker]

I'm sorry cowski but I'm NOT asking to take this discussion OFF-LINE.

If you read the 'fine print' in the 'Eng-Tips Posting Policies' I believe that my responses cannot in any way be construed as "promoting" since I've been responding to legitimate questions posted by concerned users of our software. However, there are some issues which I would like to explore with the people who have posted their comments here, or anyone who may have simply been reading the posts, but if I do, there is a very good chance that this could evolve into something which I believe WOULD violate the rules established by the powers-the-be here at Eng-Tips and I have too much respect for them to abuse the privilege that I have enjoyed as a vendor being allowed to post here in the manner that I have been these past several years. This is what led to my asking that anyone who would be willing to answer some simple questions about this issue that, at least in my opinion, should only be handled OFF-LINE, to please go back and look at my request that they email me.

Thank for for your patience and that of anyone else following this thread.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[capnhook]

Taking the discussion off-line is of no benefit to the users. Let's keep discussing it here, I'd like to read more some opinions please.

Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community..

[green]To the Toolmaker, your nice little cartoon drawing of your glass looks cool, but your solid model sucks. Do you want me to fix it, or are you going to take all week to get it back to me so I can get some work done?[/green]

 

[JohnRBaker]

What exactly don't you understand when I posted, twice now, once directly in response to you and once in answereing cowski, that "I have NO intentions of NOT continuing to respond in public forums, be it this one or any others, where this topic may be brought up!"?

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM!!!!!!!



John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[capnhook]

Well, then sit back and read, senior Baker. I am sure other users want to discuss this topic.

Proud Member of the Reality-Based Community..

[green]To the Toolmaker, your nice little cartoon drawing of your glass looks cool, but your solid model sucks. Do you want me to fix it, or are you going to take all week to get it back to me so I can get some work done?[/green]

 

[JohnRBaker]

And I've done NOTHING to discourage that from happening. In fact, I've provided more detailed information and images than I suspect that most any of the people who have posted here, including yourself, ever expected to see this early in the 'life cycle' of our next product release, correct?

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.