On-line Masters of Science in Engineering degrees 6

[geostruct]

I am actually expanding this from another thread.

I understand that an on-line school is not the conventional way of obtaining a graduate degree for engineers. However, as I understand it, what are the academic advantages of going to graduate school in person? Heres my list:

1. Ability to work in teams with students.
2. Ability to ask professor for help in person.
3. Attend classes in person.
Let me know if there are any other academic advantages that I am leaving out.

Here is how I would counter those advantages with the online degree:

1. On-line Engineering graduate students still do team projects with other students. Except in this case, most of the communication is done over the phone or email etc. This is how a majority of the communication ie conf calls, emails, phone calls is done in industry, right?
2. The same general answer as #1, except for anyone who is working at the time, if you cant get your answer from the professor over the phone/email, why not ask colleagues at work to help explain? I'm sure they would spare a few minutes now and then to help you improve your technical capabilities.
3. I believe that a technical engineering graduate degree is something that you should WANT to get. If someone is able to read chapters, study examples, do excercises online etc., why shouldnt this be sufficient as a graduate degree? Graduate degrees are meant to be a primarily an independent study anyway, right?

Everyone struggles when they need to balance work, family, school, and other personal issues. The business world has certainly adapted to people obtaining their on-line MBAs, and I know that business classes are different than engineering classes, but isnt it time for engineering to evolve and adapt now as well?

What does everyone think?

 

[frv]

I guess that's where all the schools are going. Between USC and Georgia Tech, you've got two really good schools offering online graduate programs.

 

[davidbeach]

I'm sure that for most schools it will be like it is with the University of Idaho, it is the Outreach program that provides enough students to make possible a far broader program than could be provided with only the on campus students to draw from.

 

[Lion06]

I took a number of undergrad classes via distance education (mostly online, but two were video courses) for my gen ed/humanities classes (none for engineering). I am also taking one for grad school right now via distance ed because I really wanted to take the class but didn't have time in my schedule to make it to campus. I must admit that I (personally) don't get as much out of watching the lecture online as I do when I am physically in class. I still expect to get a pretty easy A, but the level of knowledge that soaks in really isn't the same. Like I said, this may be a personal thing, but I am sure it doesn't apply only to me.
It happens to be ok for this particular class (wood), but if I did this type of learning for an advanced mechanics class or something along those lines I just would not have gotten what I want to out of the class (regardless of grade). While I ALWAYS want to get an A, I would rather get an A- (maybe even a B+) and actually get more out of the class than get an A and not get as much out of it.

 

[JStephen]

I can see this varying widely in how well it worked.

When I took chemistry, it was in a big lecture hall with a couple of hundred students. There really wasn't much time for students to interact with the professor, and that class would have worked about as well on video. But the girl I sat with was awfully nice, and I would have missed that.

When I took physics, there were about a dozen students in the class, and it was very easy to say "Hey, what about this?" or "Wait, I don't see how this equals that". Most of my undergraduate engineering classes and math classes were somewhat larger, but still, it was an easy environment to interact with the professor. I think those classes would lose a fair bit on video.

I don't recall more than one or two "team" projects in college, but that's been a while, so I don't know that I would miss that.

 

[B16A2]

It depends on what you make of it, but there's definitely a stereotype that the online degrees are worth less than a "real degree". I've yet to find any of the really good schools offering it (UT, UofI, Purdue, etc)

 

[ShaggyPE]

I've yet to find any of the really good schools offering it (UT, UofI, Purdue, etc)

USC and Georgia Tech not really good?

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional

 

[jpankask]

I completed my MS in Mechanical Engineering a few years ago from Kansas State University (

http://www.dce.ksu.edu),

my alma mater. I took exactly the same classes as the online students and had to do all the same homework, except I had to balance my school time with working full time and raising a family. I think it was a great experience but it was very difficult. I definitely learned a lot and the best thing about it was that since I was working as an engineer at the same time, many times I could apply what I was learning directly to my job. Most of my classes were videotaped and sent to me, so I was about a week behind the rest of the class.

I also am a proponent of distance learning graduate degrees. I think a BS would be very difficult to do at a distance, because of the labs, etc. which is probably why very few do it. Those who look down upon a graduate degree completed by distance learning have not really researched it or they have in their head the early "diploma mills" online universities that offered degrees based on "life experience", etc. A graduate degree earned through distance learning at most reputable universities today is just as good or better than earning the same degree on campus. And your transcripts will not differentiate between earning the degree on campus or at a distance. Just make sure the program you are applying to offers an accredited undergraduate program.

 

[HgTX]

One difference would be no closed-book or proctored exams. You could have someone else do the entire course for you and get the degree for yourself. You could get away with that in a "live" course for homework and reports, but not exams.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[davidbeach]

UofI requires that all Outreach students have a proctor for exams. Fortunately most of mine have been open book (both in and out of class students) and I've not needed the proctor for several terms. I've certainly done all my work for/by myself.

 

[geostruct]

B16- here are a few online engineering degrees offered by a few schools you consider "good".

https://engineering.purdue.edu/ProEd

purdue

http://online.engr.uiuc.edu/degrees.htm

illinois

If you ask me, to a certain extent a school is a school if all you are looking for is to broaden your knowledge or sharpen skills with an advanced degree. It's different if you want to do research with top professors mentoring you. If you arent doing research for a MS or phd, do the classes really decline that much outside the top 3 or 4 schools in the country for each specialty? I think a lot of classwork/projects/homework/independent study is what each individual makes of it.

I agree with jpank...BS degrees would be harder to do. MS degrees where I believe the student SHOULD have a high interest in the subject matter- enables them to independently study the subject...hence an online degree.

Now that it seems like NCEES and ASCE among other professional organizations are recommending a min of 30 addl credits after a BS degree for technical competency, I believe that online degrees are going to have to become more common. Many people simply cant afford to go to school while not working and paying off BS degree loans/having their company help pay for the MS degree.

Would those of you hiring/department managers really discriminate against an online school if you heard someone went to one for a MS degree...whether it be for a promotion or a new hire? What would the percentage weights be for considering a candidate if the categories were (consider all candidates have MS degree): work experience, name of grad school attended, recommendation by colleagues, interview.

Dont know how many of them are really applicable because of various situations especially because recommendation probably far outweighs all others, but I am trying to get a feel for how much value/discrimination is put on online MS degrees.

 

[zdas04]

Getting hired is a process, not an event.

A degree gets you into the interview (often times the name of the school will get you preference over other candidates, but not always). The interview can lose you the job (rarely will one interview win you a job). References/recommendations are not checked until you've made a short list (if then).

A distance degree is a degree and a hiring manager cannot tell from a CV if the person attended classes in an ivy-covered building or online.

I got my MS from night school at an auxiliary campus of the University of Colorado. My diploma says U of C and doesn't specify either night school or that I've never been to Boulder in my life. I expect an MS through a distance program is the same.

David

 

[Lion06]

HgTX-
All of the online MS programs I looked at did require you to have a proctor for exams (if required - obviously not if the exam is open book). I'm only in my third MS class (the quasi-traditional route of taking night classes, 1 per semester) and I've only had a very, very small portion of one class where it was closed book, and all of those questions were very qualitative in nature requiring no calculations whatsoever.

That being said, as I stated earlier, I know that I would get a lot more out of a class by being present in class. I know that I don't put much time into a class outside of the actual classroom (unless the homework is being graded) and I have very, very poor study habits (I haven't studied for an exam................... well, ever). I need to pay attention in class and it just sort of sinks in, so not being in class is detrimental to my learning, but I know that.

 

[jpankask]

I was required to find a proctor for my exams every semester. Mine was my HR manager. She had to sign a form to maintain confidentiality, etc. and the exams were sent to her before I was supposed to take it. She arranged a time and I had 1 hour to complete. Sometimes exams were open-book but often not.

 

[geostruct]

Thanks everyone for their comments.

zdas-completely understood about the job process. Thanks for your insight.

So what can we say about all of this? Do we think Online Graduate degrees will become more common/more accepted in the near future? It seems as though schools are forced to offer them, whether they like it or not, just because of the competition.

As some of you have said (structuraleit) online school is not for everyone. It requires a lot of discipline, concentration, and the ability to independently study. So it is certainly a personal decision to go to school that way.

 

[geostruct]

FYI:

Here is a list based on price and school "best buys" for online schools.

http://geteducated.com/rankings/best_engineer.asp

The site also explains some FAQs about "distance learning" in their FAQ section.

 

[Atomic25]

At least for structural engineering, I still dont see any reputable schools offering online degrees. If Purdue or UofI would offer struct degrees online I'd probably jump at that...till then I'm not going to waste my time with Norwich, etc.

I disagree with the notion that a school is a school even if you're looking to broaden your skills. I've seen firsthand how few tools people aquire from many programs. A lot of programs are just passing people through and they're nowhere near worth spending your time and money.

 

[frv]

Atomic-

I was going to mention that to certain extent. I don't know if "reputable" is the right word. Perhaps there are no "top tier" schools offering SE is a better way to phrase it. There are several schools on that list that are "reputable", yet not necessarily "top tier". Although, again, not in SE.

Having said that, I'd say Auburn and UW Madison are definitely top tier. I don't know if that applies to their online programs, though.

 

[Lion06]

atomic-
I generally agree with your posts, but I think I have to respectfully disagree here.
As for online structural graduate degrees - USC offers that and they are a top 10 grad program. I am attending a program at a very reputable structural program that doesn't offer an online degree, but you can take all but about 3 or 4 grad courses via the web.
Additionally, the few tools that many people acquire from many programs is likely a function of the person more than the program. I doubt those particular individuals would gain more tools by attending a "better" school - they might not make it through the program, but I doubt many would leave with more tools.
It's been my experience (again, I'm only 3 classes in) that in graduate school, the professors expect you to be a little more independent than in undergrad. I guess I'm just saying that if you are viewing the same exact classes as the "traditional" students and doing the same exact work why would the knowledge be considered inferior? Again, this doesn't work as well for some people (myself included), but if you are truly about sharpening and increasing your skills/knowledge, people will do what they need to in order to gain said skills/knowledge. I can't say this is the same for someone just trying to get a degree, but they can squeak their way through in-class just as well as a distance ed program.

 

[frv]

StrEIT-

I think he (and consequently my reply to him) was alluding to the schools on the link provided.

In general I agree with you about USC being a good school. I can't remember where they rank in CE or SE, but I believe the top tier in SE (say top 5-10) still don't offer online MS or ME programs. Someone mentioned Georgia Tech as offering online MS degrees. If they do, in fact, offer an MS in SE, then my previous statement is no longer valid.

 

[Lion06]

USC is #8 for graduate engineering. US news and world report doesn't distinguish between disciplines.