PE Stamping Cost 4

[koo]

guys, got a pricing question about additional charge if I am asked to stamp the calculation and drawings for connection design.

I didn't stamp them before and only submit calcs. for others to stamping (EOR). Now they want me to stamp it. What price diff. does it make on an hourly rate basis? (I know I should cover insurance and add'l hours...but is there a typical industry rate diff. btw. stamping vs. non-stamping?)

Please be specific if you can...thanks.

Koo

 

[JedClampett]

Since this thread seems kind of dead, I thought I'd contribute my two cents. My opinion is that if you're a registered engineer and you're doing engineering, you ought to be willing to stamp your work for no additional cost, unless there's some reproduction costs involved.
Discuss!

 

[JoeTank]

Well put Jed. A star to you.

Joe Tank

 

[PatBethea]

I disagree with Jed. Anybody can provide calculations and drawings. The stamp itself has real value - try taking an unstamped set of plans to a permitting body. Stamped Work = More Value = Greater Liability - you need a way to capture that cost.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Some state codes say that ALL work done by a PE should be stamped.

I assume it will always need a stamp and charge accordingly.

 

[ron9876]

I agree that you should be willing to seal anything that you design. You are professionally responsible with or without a seal. Non engineers are not supposed to perform engineering calculations.

 

[PatBethea]

Being "willing to seal anything that you design" is not mutually exclusive of being compensated more for actually using your seal.

Here's an analogy for you steel guys - when you order steel and require certain certifications be provided with the material, you pay more. The steel is the exact same, with or without the certs. This applies with engineering calcs as well - if you don't want me to seal the work, I'll give you a price break.

 

[ron9876]

Why

 

[PatBethea]

Why not?

Look, for the vast majority of all engineering work (including most of the stuff I do), I fully expect I'll have to sign and seal my work - I base my price accordingly. There is a market, however, where PE approval is not required - typically in the residential sector. As an example, I will provide HVAC load calculations and energy forms to mech contractors/home owners for a much reduced price over what I'd charge in a commercial setting where a PE seal would be required. I'm still making money (albeit at a reduced rate), it has attracted more business for the company, and the home owner saves money - where's the problem in this practice?

Another example - I used to do a lot of pressure vessel design work (when I didn't work for myself). All of the vessels I designed were built to the ASME B&PV code. If a client asked for a PE to verify the design (and sign/seal the design documents), the company would charge considerably more. The vessel was the same, as was the designer (me) - why do you think the company charged more? Because the PE seal has a tangible value.

 

[ron9876]

Well certainly if you can get more money it would be crazy not to get more. But to reduce your fee because you don't seal the work doesn't make sense to me. You are as responsible without a seal as with.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Got to agree with ron9876

 

[msquared48]

Me too.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[sundale]

If you are selling your time/expertise as a consulting engineer for a client, then you are performing the practice of engineering whether you stamp the drawings or not.

All the states I am licensed in precribe that all final engineering plans, drawings, reports, etc. constituting the practice of engineering shall be stamped by the PE in responsible charge. There are exemptions to what actually constitutes the practice of engineering, of course, but it does not sound to me like the OP meets these exemptions.

I would seriously consider stamping the drawings and I would definitely not have "extra fees" for stamped drawings. If you are in responsible charge of the work, you are liable and responsible for the work whether you stamped it or not; the fee should reflect the full degree of responsibility and liability

 

[tngolfer]

It is very common for my firm to include a comment in our Structural Notes that other engineering services (cold-formed steel trusses, limestone veneer supports, etc.) be signed and sealed by an engineer licensed in the project state.

Is this common for other firms?

The ability to bid a project seems like it should be compensation enough. It makes the specialty engineer stand behind his/her work. I would be very worried letting someone else design a piece of my (EOR) building and have them not be willing to put their stamp on it.

 

[hokie66]

As professional engineers, we are responsible for our work and should be compensated accordingly. The stamp, as used in the US but not in many other places, is just a signature attesting to the engineer's responsibility for the work. Why anyone would charge more for attesting to his own work is beyond me.

 

[whyun]

I am used to seeing structural engineering work (moonlight small stuff) at $100 to $120 per hour if a stamp must be provided. When you are "helping" your buddy reduce his/her workload and your buddy will stamp and seal, rates are typically $50 to $75 depending on your friendship. These are contract rates, so no benefits included.

 

[JStephen]

My two cents worth:
Doing the work and expecting the EOR to seal it may not be allowed under the "direct supervision" requirements of your state rules- check and see. It could vary with the rules and with the actual arrangement of work.

Texas currently has a rule that if a registered engineer is doing work that is exempt, then a seal is also not required on that work. I think this was understood a long time before it was put in the rules, more so with engineers working in exempt industries than with consultants doing small jobs.

 

[hokie66]

I submit that there is a serious ethical problem with basing your pricing on whether the work is "stamped" or "unstamped". I don't mean the situation mentioned by whyun, where the hourly rate for an engineer working essentially as an employee without ultimate design responsibility is of course less than the charge the responsible engineer will pass on to the client.

If someone does work for a client as a professional engineer, and then upon completing that work for an agreed price, he asks for additional money to "stamp" the work, to me that is tantamount to extortion.

 

[msucog]

i agree that you should be willing to stamp your professional engineering work without additional compensation. if you need to compose a summary letter at the end which is stamped, of course you should be compensated for the time to review the project file, evaluate that what you are claiming is factual to best of your knowledge, and then actually formalizing the letter....all that should be billable. however, one thing you should keep in mind prior to doing that work is that if a "client"/customer wants to you do half-arse work then want it to be stamped, the ethical implications should force you do perhaps approach the project differently knowing that your stamp may be required at the end. in essence, you should perform all work assuming that a stamp will be required at the end...i guess the whole stamp issue is sort of like the guardian angel sitting on your shoulder reminding you that you will be responsible for your actions as a P.E.

but no, you should not charge an extra $500 just to stamp a report that was already written and billed for.

 

[haynewp]

Ask your insurance company. If there is potentially greater financial loss (more time in court) involved then I would defintely charge to stamp it. If you think you are at greater risk of losing your license by stamping rather than not stamping it (especially if it is your own business) then I would charge for it. I don't think you are admitting that your work is any less accurate or you were somehow negligent if you don't charge as much for not stamping it, just that you are taking a higher risk of money out of your pocket.

That being said, I bet it doesn't matter whether you stamp it or not, you are at the same risk of losing your license and/or having the same amount of court fees whether it is stamped or not. Everyone will likely come after you the same either way. If that is the case, I wouldn't charge more just based on the fact that it is worth more to the client being stamped rather than unstamped, seems kind of like you are being an a-hole.