Print Archive vs All-Digital Archive 4

[333OnlyHalfEvil]

Hello everyone,

Quick question. What do you all think of having a business’s projects archive as printing and digital backups versus no printing and digital backup only?

If I was getting a business set up and you were going to work there using your stamp to stamp drawings, would you prefer there be an employee that prints out the submittals and files it away somewhere or would you think that was overkill and want it to be digital only?

Pros and cons of digital only is that it’s easier and cheaper than doing both BUT if an IT guy gets disgruntled he can delete your server and walk out and you lose everything. Pros and cons of doing both are that you’re far less likely to lose everything but it is more labor/expense.

Thoughts? How is your company handling this?

 

[dik]

For the last 4 or 5 years, all my records have been digital. Any correspondence is scanned by a small Fujitsu Scansnap scanner. I have two holes in my system. I don't have an IT guy and don't have sequential backups. My backup is the current state of all files. I don't have off site backup; I have two copies SDD portable drives, one goes into a 'firesafe' and the other is on the desk. The little one in the firesave is an M.2 SDD portable.

My Work for the last 25 years:

My drawings are in another Partition and backed up the same way.

I have a small shredder to get rid of the paper.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[JohnRBaker]

If you go all digital, just make sure that you have back-ups. If not in the cloud, than at least on media in which copies can be kept at a second location (for catastrophe protection) like a bank safety deposit box or in a fireproof lock-box in a storage unit.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

I find it important to set up files first. When a new project comes in, I select the Client, and choose the next sequential project number (a 4 digit number, eg. 0043) and add a '-' to the number and then the project name. The name would be similar to "0043-Some_Project_Name". I create this in the browser and copy the name.

I then create a project sub-directory in the "Client_Name" directory using the same name. I also have a client project list that I add an entry using the same "0043-Some_Project_Name". The project sub-directory, and project list entry is created at the same time as the browser project name is created using the same paste function. That way, all project and browser files have the same name.

The eMail for the project is copied into the browser file folder and any attached files are then copied into the project sub-directory. For really small projects I just use the project sub-directory. For medium projects I use the following sub-sub-directories:
[ul]
[li]00-Archive[/li]
[li]01-Corr[/li]
[li]02-Drawings[/li]
[li]03-Photos[/li]
[li]04-E_Drawings[/li]
[li]or whatever you want...[/li]
[/ul]

If there are revisions to the project then the sub-sub-directory becomes Rev_01, Rev_02, etc. and the above are copied into the revision sub-sub-directory.

If it is a large project, then I have about 10 or 12 of the 00-Archive, etc... folder titles.

These directories are contained in template directories for medium and large projects and I just cut and paste them into the new project sub-directory and delete any folders not used. After doing this a few times, it becomes a 'no brainer'.

It's best that you set up a methodology to start with... I've used the above for about 20 years and it works well (for me).

Once the project is completed, I move the project folder to the 9999-Completed folder.

I back up each part of the work I do to a USB stick, as it's done. At the end of the day, I use a program called FreeFileSync to copy the days work to my two portable drives, and remove the ASUS Arion M.2 PCIe NVMe SSD and put it in the 'fire safe'. Done like a 'turkey'.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

For my one client, I have over 570 projects and the completed projects are in a separate sub directory,and these are further separated into groups of 100 projects.

with the individual folders in these sub-directories (image cropped so project name not shown).

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[3DDave]

I know of a company where a partner came in on the weekend and loaded up file cabinets into a truck and started a competing business basically down the street. Arson, water, and any number of liquid adhesives are available to those wishing to hurt a business.

That said, I have taken advantage of a Wiki as a "file cabinet." While destruction of the server could still put a dent into things, it allows many-to-many links between various bits of information and includes versioning. However, data management is often like a pet - it matters more what you feel you can get along with as much as what capabilities it has.

 

[BrianPetersen]

I've been all-digital for the last 12 years. Everyone has their own flavour; the important thing is that it works for you.

I have a master project list which is a spreadsheet of sequential project numbers in the leftmost column, then the client name, then the name of the project, then a status column (e.g. "quoted", "dead", "in process", "waiting for information from X", "invoiced", and of course, "paid"), and accounting uses an expansion of that list with more columns to include dates and PO numbers and invoice numbers. Our project numbers also have the project manager encoded into them, so that if someone knows that our company did a particular project and they have our project number, any of us can pin down who's responsible for it immediately. (everyone keeps their own files)

Every client has a subfolder (same names as on the master project list), and every client folder has a subfolder whose name starts with the project number and then the name of the project, which could be anything but it's the same name as in that spreadsheet. Within that project folder, at a minimum, there is a quotation, and a cost-tracking spreadsheet, and whatever project files are associated with the project. The quotation, the cost-tracking sheet, and any project files that would be considered deliverables have the project number as the first few digits of the filename, and that project number is of course written into the document itself - this way, the project can always be tracked back, even if someone only has the slimmest of information about it. If they have my project number, I can look it up in the spreadsheet and find out where it is and what it's called. If they know who built it and what it's called but don't have the file number ("I seem to remember that you did project ABC. Do you have any records of doing that?"), I have a fighting chance of finding it.

If there is a subsequent revision to an earlier project ... the original file stays as is, and a copy of it gets made in the original folder and the name gets changed to include a "R1" or "R2" or some other suitable revision designation, and the quoting and invoicing are based on the original project number with that revision designation added to it. This way you are able to track down later revisions in case someone looks up something based upon an earlier one (because it's in the same folder), and it's easy to answer questions like "I found this file from 10 years ago. Is this the latest revision of <whatever the project is>".

The bottom line is that it has to work for YOU, so by all means take ideas presented here and run with them. Be prepared for situations like looking up past projects, keeping track of revisions, keeping track of dates at which someone (including yourself) needs to do something, keeping track of what's been invoiced and who has (or hasn't) paid their bills, and so forth.

 

[BrianPetersen]

I should add that frequent back-ups are essential, and that includes off-site back-ups and multiple technologies that aren't always connected to the internet and aren't all in the same physical building. My routine back-ups are to a thumb drive (which is only ever plugged into a computer while in the process of copying files). Every now and again that thumb drive gets copied to a hard disk on a separate computer, every now and again that thumb drive itself gets locked up somewhere and I start using another one (and I swap the two from time to time), and we've also got a cloud-based back-up solution.

I have had external hard drives and thumb drives fail and become unreadable without warning. Assume that this will happen. It's unlikely to happen to two of them at the same time that aren't plugged into a computer, especially if they are in different physical locations. Only ever erase the contents of one back-up drive if you know you have another one that's up-to-date and not plugged into a computer, and you are about to make a second back-up.

 

[dik]

Set your software if you can so that it automatically created a backup every 5 minutes or whatever you can afford to lose. I think my Libreoffice is set for 2 minutes and my Bricscad is set for 5...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[dik]

And if I ever do work outside the home, I keep the data on an encrypted thumb drive and an encrypted laptop harddrive. My home desktops are not encrypted.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[IRstuff]

There are certain other considerations, having to do with actual CAD or other applications' files; you may need to have backups of the software that created and can read those files. When PTC bought Mathsoft, they decided to create a new version, Mathcad Prime, which is wholly incompatible with the previous version of Mathcad, thus requiring a fairly tedious conversion process to get older files to be usable in the new version, often with massive incompatibilities that require lots of manual patching.

In a previous job, we kept a microVAX alive for more than 15 years because it was the only platform that ran a compiler for the version of ADA we used in some flight software in a product. Luckily, the software had sufficient flight hours that most of the critical operational bugs had already been encountered and the microVAX eventually died a natural death with no impact on the program, which continued on for another 10 years before the military decommissioned the product permanently.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[EnergyProfessional]

Printing and storing paper is quite expensive - you can buy a lot of professional server backup for a fraction of the cost. Plus retrieving data is cumbersome and then how do you send a plan to a client or someone? Scan it?
Plus all the software files.

If you design a paper storage, you deal with combustible material. fire burns paper. but water from sprinklers or the fire department also destroys your files. You would only store data on paper if they are not important. if data are important, someone would have digitized them.

There is no reason for an existing business to still us paper, even if they started with paper in the old days. but for a new business in 2021, no reason at all.

 

[dik]

Due to paper density, packed paper in filing cabinets, that are closed, can withstand a 'bunch of burn'. Some fire insurance claims can be void, if the cabinet is not closed. All my stuff is digitised. I have a couple of horiz filing cabinets down the basement that haven't been opened in likely 20 years.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[EnergyProfessional]

Don't worry about water damage, fire fighters usually limit themselves to 300gpm and a few minutes per room

Burnt on the outside only, and the rest soaky wet. After the fire you just hang each sheet (or what is left) on a cloth line hoping it doesn't fall apart or the ink washes away. Ideally before it becomes a moldy hazmat issue. I'm sure the plans will be in excellent condition!

 

[XR250]

I too am all digital.
Have the computer itself and two backups.
1) Network attached drive
2) Google Drive

 

[Sparweb]

There are actually 2 issues here, not one:
[ol 1]
[li]Data preservation[/li]
[li]Data authentication[/li]
[/ol]

Everybody's answer above focuses on "preservation". Nobody has answered about "authentication". I'm not really well versed in the second part, either, but it's a major factor that you should consider if you are ever faced with legal or regulatory problems.

Simple scenario: "Prove that it was actually YOU who stamped this document, and not one of your employees".
If you can't produce a piece of paper with ink and your hand-written signature, then you will have to go demonstrate the integrity of your digital signature authentication - as it was authenticated at the time. If it was 10 years ago, that means you have the certificate file you used to authenticate your digital signature 10 years ago.

Since I don't claim to be very knowledgeable about electronic authentication in general, I won't tell you what I think you should do. I probably don't do a perfect job myself in this area. Which is why I still use paper and wet-ink signatures.

 

[dik]

I've never been concerned about data authentication... just me here, but I've had two incidents of this in the last couple of years. One was a set of documents that I'd revised, and the non-revised documents went forward (a accident) the other, the fabricator modified the sealed documents to change the issue from "Preliminary" to "Issued for Construction". The latter was more serious,IMHO, and was resolved by informing the Client that this should not be done; it's not happened since.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Sparweb]

When a PE regulator or a lawyer shows up at your door, it's too late to start *then*.

If the stakes aren't very high on the plans you stamp, this rare possibility may not concern you. If the stakes are high, welllll.

 

[Fischstabchen]

I would tell anyone who uses google drive as a backup that that is a huge mistake. It is near impossible to help from google. I have microsoft clouds service and that is slow but I'll get whatever back. There are better and more responsive services but I wanted sharepoint. It is a nightmare when you want something back and are held up for weeks. Anyone who uses google drive should just "accidentally" delete something and see how long it takes for google to fix that problem for you.

 

[MTNClimber]

We're all digital as well. We use Google Drive which saves multiple backups and previous versions. We also backup our files on an external hard drive every couple of months as an additional precaution.

I once worked for a company that was subject to a ransomware attack. They lost all of their files and did not pay for the ransom. Luckily they kept paper copies of all final work. I'm hoping our external backup works similarly.