Railroad rail 2

[KamilBeski]

I am working with the artist who wants to create the installation of 52 flagpoles that are approximately 23 feet high, and for conceptual reasons, wants the flagpoles to be made out of the old railroad rail. The installation is to be outdoor (for DesertX biennale) somewhere in Coachella Valley where winds are quite strong.I hope that I can get some guidance from the community here. Thank you!

 

[SWComposites]

Maybe weld the flanges of 4 rails together in the shape of a box?

Working with artists is way worse than working with architects. Good luck. And charge them by the hour.

 

[KamilBeski]

@swcomposites Thanks for the suggestion but the whole point is to actually use the single rail in place of the traditional tubular flag post retaining its singular visual characteristics. I wonder if 25 foot section of rail can be a stand in for the flag post ( with possible modification to the section imbedded inside the concrete foundation).

 

[canwesteng]

What guidance do you need exactly? Material properties of the rail, how to analyze it, what risk category it could be, would you use temp ASCE 37 loads or ASCE 7 loads?

 

[SWComposites]

You need to do a structural analysis, not “wonder”.

 

[KamilBeski]

@canwesteg Precisely that: Do material properties of a recycled rail (exposed to years of repeated stress) make it appropriate to use as a stand-in for a flag pole in the windy area( 20 second sustained 103mp/h wind gusts). This will most probably be temporary installation for 11 weeks, so I would think that ASCE 37 is the category. Thanks for your response. ( I just noticed that this forum is for Engineering Professionals. I am a production director for DesertX biennale with no engineering background, seeking some advice. I apologise if me being here, asking questions is against the forum's rules and if so I will leave promptly)

 

[JStephen]

Do you already have this "old" railroad rail?
That stuff comes in different sizes, and the older it is, the smaller it might be.
If it was made for bolted joints, there's no guarantee it's weldable.
So first step is figure out what you have.
Actually, 23' doesn't sound that high for a piece of the bigger rail.
It may be quite a bit heavier and catch more wind that a normal flagpole, but that can be considered in the design.
There is a standard for flagpoles that should give you the loadings on a flag.
Wind speeds from ASCE 7.

 

[Retrograde]

I am a production director for DesertX biennale with no engineering background

In which case you should hire a structural engineer.

 

[LittleInch]

You also need to know what is going onto these flagpoles in terms of size of the flag or other thing on the top.

Also temporary installation might need foundations to be removed or broken up.

Rail is not even and responds to bending in different way depending on the direction of force. The issue being is that the wind changes direction...

And rails are not even shaped. Does the artist want them all in the same orientation?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[sbisteel]

And from a general flag performance, expect this thing to get bound up on a daily basis. There's a big reason flag poles are round.

 

[BridgeSmith]

I think the artist is going to be disappointed at the size of the flag that's going to be able to fly on a standard train rail at that height.

 

[3DDave]

How deeply must these be planted to keep upright and who is digging the holes or bringing the pile driver?

 

[dvd]

Not going to look into it, but I wonder what the torsional vibration modes of this shape are, and how these will respond to wind-induced vortices. Also wonder whether putting a pipe section at the top few feet would make this more torsionally rigid.

added comment - it would be pretty cool to come up with a shape/length which would oscillate intentionally, maybe a couple of different frequencies over a realistic range of wind speeds.

 

[LittleInch]

Standard rails in the US are 39ft long.

So avoiding cutting means a 16ft deep hole??

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.