Retirement ages for engineers 8

[geotechguy1]

In your experience, at what age do engineers in these professions retire? Do you find engineers start getting forced out / laid off at 50-55? If that happens, has it been easy to get a new job?

Asking because I had always planned to aim for FIRE at 45 because I hated the first 5 years of my career but it's gradually getting better and 10 years in I actually enjoy my profession and reckon I might want to work until 60 or 65 if my brain holds up but I have heard mixed things about late career engineering

 

[moltenmetal]

The whole problem with retirement savings is not knowing how long you're going to be around! Ideally, my wife and I would like the last cheque we ever write to bounce due to insufficient funds, but neither of us wants to jump out the exit door from this life any sooner than circumstances demand...So sure, you tend to err on the side of caution, i.e. thinking you need more money than you actually need. That's just betting on a long life and having a little more "fun money". If you like your work, it's a good bargain. If you don't...well, no amount of money in retirement is worth putting up with 40+ hrs of hell every week.

My dad lived to 100 yrs and 1 month old...he always said that his biggest financial error was living past 70 yrs old, when in Canada you must convert your registered retirement savings plan (RRSP) savings into a registered retirement income fund (an annuity) or take a big tax hit on it.

In the old days, we had a mandatory retirement age here in Canada. That made it clearer when someone had to leave, and the company could be rid of them without paying a severance. It also eliminated the temptation for companies to turf people in their 50s unless things really were going poorly. But in our stupidity, we eliminated that provision, quietly and without any significant debate about the implications of that decision. Now there is no certainty for anybody. For individuals with a long service history with a firm, it's great- they can stay on until the company gets fed up with them and fires them with a big severance, or comes forward with a negotiated settlement to encourage them to retire. Getting rid of someone for "cause", on the basis of reduced performance due to age, i.e. without paying much of a severance, is hard to accomplish.

I once saw that as a big disadvantage for our firm. I'm now seeing it as a huge advantage for me personally!



(

http://www.spitfireresearch.com)

 

[LittleInch]

molten metal. We have something similar in the UK. The big difference was that about 10 years ago they scrapped the requirement to buy an annuity with your tax advantageous saving. You can take 25% of your "pot" tax free, then pay income tax on the remainder as you take it, or indeed buy an annuity - but sales have fallen through the floor.

Indeed the mandatory retirement age went a few years ago as well - in part due to discrimination legislation and in part because people just wanted to work longer and were complaining that they were being kicked out before they wanted / could afford to. But yes, if you're in an employee situation then yes, wait for the pay off / retirement options..

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[geotechguy1]

LittleInch - very interesting about the annuities. A big part of Vetesse's argument is that most people would be fine with government pension + annuities that equate to maybe 50% of pre retirement income - mainly because spending in retirement declines faster than inflation so having inflation protection is much less important than having longevity protection.

 

[IRstuff]

spending in retirement declines faster than inflation so having inflation protection is much less important than having longevity protection.

Possibly, but there's some controversy about the "inflation" value, since the government figures are for a single combination of goods, services, etc., and no single person's expenditures are necessarily reflected in the mashup of costs the government uses. And medical costs continue to increase as you age, and inflation for medical costs has almost always exceeded inflation by a sizable amount

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[JohnRBaker]

This is what makes up the contents of the Consumer Price Index:

While this might be relevant for the average middle-class working-age family, I don't think it reflects the expenditures of older, retired people. Certainly, the medical component would seem to be smaller than I would expect it to be. Also, housing is much bigger than I would think it would be for most retirees.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
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The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[lacajun]

I've watched a number of older people get clobbered by unexpected medical problems. You just never know what lurks around the corner, brush, tall grasses, etc.

I retired at 50, went back to work at 53, then had a major medical issue that left me unemployed – ‘There’s no such thing as a safe amount of money’ for retirement

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[drawoh]

lacajun,

Here is an interesting question. Joe (or Josephine) Blow retires at fifty. The universe does not unfold as they desired and anticipated, and they are looking for work at sixty. what do you think of their professionalism and work ethic?

--
JHG

 

[phamENG]

drawoh - there's not even remotely enough information available to answer your hypothetical. There's nothing unprofessional about wanting to retire young, and I'd say that to even come close to having a shot at it your work ethic would have to be pretty amazing (unless you're incredibly lucky, born rich, etc.).

Now if you burn all your bridges on the way out, then that's a problem. And if you've done well enough to retire 15 years before the "normal" retirement age, I would find it odd that you don't have a network large enough to make a couple of calls and have a spot. Of course if you're coming out of a niche field and your old spot was filled and there's really no use for you, then you might be up a creek.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

what do you think of their professionalism and work ethic?

No more/less than in any other situation. I might question how long they plan on staying with my company if they've already retired and have to come back, but then that's why face-to-face conversation are important.

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[CWB1]

Many in the US think we have a bloated social safety net. My experience says it's really hard to get help because I couldn't get any aid from social security.

Most of my employers had designers to do the basics of drawings, BOMs, etc. because they are much lower cost than engineers.

2d drafting depts are still common but 3d CAD design depts (separate from engineering) went the wayside 20 years ago along with generalized CAE/analytical depts. I spent a few years at one dinosaur that was in-process of (painfully) phasing out its design dept and as quality studies suggest, the programs that had engineers creating 3d CAD and analysis themselves ran much faster and at a lower cost than programs dividing those tasks. Adding in the "cheaper" 3d CAD jockey adds steps to the process where an engineer needs to review/approve/request rework vs just having an engineer do the design work themselves.

My condolences on the health issues. Yours is an example of what I find wrong with our social security system stateside, and why the name is rather absurd. JMO but I'd much rather have a safety net starting ~50 than a poor excuse for a pension a decade+ later. IMHO its one of the best examples stateside of greed and bad politics ruining good intentions.

 

[CWB1]

There's nothing unprofessional about wanting to retire young, and I'd say that to even come close to having a shot at it your work ethic would have to be pretty amazing (unless you're incredibly lucky, born rich, etc.).

Eh, not sure I'd go that far. Work ethic is pretty far removed from saving/financial ability, setting up an allotment into a retirement account is pretty simple and only takes a few minutes. Having made frugal family lifestyle choices also greatly simplifies that outcome - high-earning spouse, no/few kids, cheap lifestyle, etc. JMO but retiring at 50 shouldn't be terribly difficult for most engineers but definitely takes a bit of thought at the beginning of your working years and financial awareness throughout.

Rehiring at 60 anywhere other than a previous employer would be nearly impossible IME outside of the contract temp agencies.

 

[Settingsun]

The vast majority of people go to work because they want to be paid. No different from a retired person having to go back to work.

 

[IRstuff]

No different from a retired person having to go back to work.

Possibly, although there is a small fraction that simply likes the rigor and structure of work, or can't find anything interesting to do on their own. Most of what I enjoy doing is what I do for work.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[lacajun]

drawoh, I don't think much about it. I've worked with people that retired in place at 30 or 40 years old. You never know until you talk, listen, and hire. There is no honor in retiring in place. There is no dishonor in legitimating retiring at 50. If someone can do the job, wants the job, then hire them.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:

http://nspe-co.org/events.php

 

[prc]

I retired at the age of 76, even though the formal retirement age in my company was 58. I was not feeling it boring. I would have continued but for the covid. Recently I saw in the web a 92-year-old engineer working for GE aero-engine engineering department. If your health permits and if you are enjoying your daily work with passion, there is no limit until one of them fades.

 

[csk62]

I think there are too many people early in their career who need to retire from engineering and move into another field that suits them better. You know, the folks that create a net positive amount of work that are better served pursuing careers in sales.

Most of the greybeard engineers I've worked with retire approximately 12 years after they purchase a vintage Chevelle, or nice lake house; and I'm happy for them hanging up the cleats in their early 60's. Many continue to work in a part time consulting capacity for a year or two, presumably to pay off the aforementioned lake house.

----------------------------------
Not making a decision is a decision in itself

 

[PEinc]

I'm 71 now and trying to cut back to 3 days per week. So far, I've been unsuccessful.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com

 

[Aesur]

I'm a little late to the game here, but I wasn't aware engineers ever retire... Based on what I have seen the ones who stick it out and stay in the field long enough to retire enjoy it too much to retire. Joking aside, I have typically seen 70 to 80 as the retirement range in my area (crap-I'm still 40 or so years away), a few engineers have unfortunately passed away due to old age while still working. I am of the opinion that you should retire when you are ready and able too as life is too short. In my area the older engineers are highly sought after for their knowledge as there seems to be a generational gap in engineers. I have seen the older engineers who were very knowledgeable and then the mid career ones who focus on project management but really don't know how to design something and then the younger ones of which a few are eager to learn but have no one to teach them properly without the old guys. I personally don't think someone would have a hard time finding another job at a small to medium size firm after they retire. I don't have have much experience or knowledge of larger firms, but there does seem to be a trend of replacing older engineers with newer ones before retirement.

 

[IRstuff]

In my area the older engineers are highly sought after for their knowledge as there seems to be a generational gap in engineers

That partly arises because engineers DON'T retire earlier; why would you seek out a newb if you can get a graybeard, right? The sooner engineers retire, the more likely the next generation will pick up the slack and skills needed to be the next set of graybeards. Of course, that's compounded by those engineers that don't adequately mentor younger engineers, because it's a PITA, and it's no fun to watch a younger engineer struggle to do something that you could do with both hands tied behind your back. And yeah, guilty as charged.

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[PEinc]

The sooner engineers retire, the more likely the next generation will pick up the slack and skills needed to be the next set of graybeards.

In my experience, the next generation, way too often, is not picking up the technical skills that need to be handed down to them. Blame the newbies and the graybeards. Too may newbies don't know what they don't know and, for too many graybeards, mentoring is not made a priority.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com