Salary Negotiation 4

[Nodiggity]

Received an offer from a company of about 8% below what I'm making now along with a 5% cut in 401k matching, higher medical and dental expenses and 10 less days a year in vacation.

Is there any hope to negotiating this? I would need to increase their initial salary offer by about 39% to justify switching jobs because I'm anticipating a promotion next year.

 

[GregLocock]

I once managed to negotiate an extra 20% over their first offer.

Once




Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[IRstuff]

If you can't see your way to going over even under these conditions, then why change, particularly if you're doing well at your current job?

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Nodiggity]

They know what I make now because it was required to be put on the application. Why would they even offer an interview if they wouldn't at least match my current salary?

 

[MedicineEng]

Unless you have other reasons that you didn't disclose to leave the company, I think that it is a wrong move, money/conditions wise.
I don't think that you can negotiate increase of 40% from their initial offer, unless they are really desperate for you and. If that's the case, they might even give you this increase but you will paying it for the coming years, with lower salary increases and such.
In my salary negotiations I managed to have increases of 8% from employers'initial offer, but they already started from a close number of my idea.

 

[bvanhiel]

They know what I make now because it was required to be put on the application. Why would they even offer an interview if they wouldn't at least match my current salary?

Never disclose your salary. Just leave it blank on the application.

Negotiation is all about information. The guy with the most information is likely to end up the winner. You've already given most of yours away. At this point I'd just tell them the salary number and vacation that you want and that it's not negotiable. You probably won't get it, but then you probably weren't going to get it anyway.

-b

 

[Nodiggity]

I find it pretty insulting actually that they would waste both of ours time and money.

 

[MikeHalloran]

Perhaps they assumed that you grossly inflated what you revealed, and were trying to offer parity or a very small increment to your actual salary... or perhaps you grossly undersold yourself, or applied for a position that just doesn't pay what you're worth to your current employer.

Try writing a transcript of the interview(s). Reading it may help you figure out what happened.








Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[MadMango]

I recently switched jobs, and was in a similar position, the initial offer was 8% above what I was making, but below the 15% of what I wanted to move. This irritated me for a couple of days. In the end (after 2wks of negotiations) they got me for 20% over what I was making, and I managed to keep my 4wks of annual vacation accrual. It can be done, the key is maintaining a number in your head and heart that you desire and no backing down. If you are qualified and if they really need you, you'll get what you want (or close to it). If you don't get it, are you really worse off? You are currently employed, what do you have to lose?

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[corus]

I'd avoid putting your current salary on the application form unlesss the manager of the company tells you what he's earning too. Fat chance.
If you must put something down then inflate your current salary so that the new company will at least match your 'salary' and hence you'll get a raise. If the company you've applied to are offering you less then I wouldn't even bother replying. If they do eventually match your current salary then odds on they'll claw the money back in the future if you join them.

corus

 

[BrianG]

Nodiggity, I've been in this situation too: why did they waste both our times? Presumably they did not advertise the position with a salary range, otherwise you would not be asking the question about getting more. In my experience I have found that companies that advertise positions without a salary range often inflate the advertised job description so that they attract more qualified applicants than it really needs, then they won't pay what such people are usually worth when they apply. They have fixed views on what they will pay for the job, regardless of what you may have done elsewhere. They maintain the view that "this is the job, this is what we will pay - take it or leave it". They are cheapskates, so walk away!

 

[mechengdude]

You asked if there is any hope in negoating this. My thought would be yes. You don't need to waste a lot of time. Just respond that you appreciate the offer but you would have to make X to consider the position. What do you have to loose? All they can say is no.

You mentioned that you put your salary on the application but you are then making the assumption that someone actually read your application. Most of the time applications are just a formality. Ask them to increase their offer to something that is acceptable to you and let us know what they say.

Good luck

 

[PSE]

In agreement with other posters, negotiating is possible for both salary and vacation. Benefits probably less so. You just have to decide whether or not it is worth it to do so. That they came back with an offer significantly lower than your current salary is an indicator that either someone did not pay attention (a cause for concern on how the company operates), or did not really care (a major cause for concern).

Regardless of whether you put your salary on the application, if you provided a social security or tax ID number, the prospective employer can readily determine your current salary. They will obtain that information as part of their "due diligence" into your background and employment history.

Regards,

 

[ajack1]

I am not sure claiming to earn more than you do is a good idea Corus, as PSE says the company can easily find out what you really earned, I would assume knowingly giving false information on an application form is a sackable offence?

I do wonder about some people’s morals on here, how would they feel if the company lied about how much they were going to pay them?

 

[TheTick]

Companies pay for what they value, and do not pay for what they do not value. If they will not match or exceed your current salary and benefits, then they are not likely to give you more in the future.

"Where a man's treasure is, there lies his heart."

 

[zuccus]

Nodiggity,

Had a similiar situation to yours, interviewed with a company. Talking with who would have been my boss. He likes me and makes me an offer right there. It is 40% less than I was making at the time before overtime. I tell him my salary, he calls BS and says he isn't even making that much.

Happened to have my last pay stub in my briefcase, showed it to him, and politely told him to have a nice day and showed myself out.

Found a little while later he had applied over at my existing company.

Moral of the story. Some people throw a budget number out there for a position when they really have no idea of what market rates are.

Zuccus

 

[Heckler]

Companies pay for what they value, and do not pay for what they do not value. If they will not match or exceed your current salary and benefits, then they are not likely to give you more in the future.

This is so true. I've worked at companies that MEs were the valued commodity and companies that Firmware/Software were the valued commodity. It reflected in the my salary and how each group was treated by management.

Did you get a chance to interview/meet the rank and file engineers? This would give you a good idea of group dynamics. I would think if they just low-balled you as standard HR tactics you will have a good chance to come back with a counter offer but have a firm number that would make the job change worth while. Good luck and keep us posted.

A

4 TheTick

Heckler
Sr. Mechanical Engineer
SWx 2007 SP 4.0 & Pro/E 2001
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This post contains no political overtones or undertones for that matter and in no way represents the poster's political agenda.

 

[Ashereng]

I usually do tell my propective employer what I am making now. It usually doesn't really matter.

When negotiating for a new salary, rate, etc, what is important is what you want, and what they are willing to pay. The reasons, justifications, etc really doesn't matter either.

I don't usually explain why I want a certain salary - what is important is that I do. What is also important is what I am willing to forgo in a tradeoff - maybe $10,000 less for 1 more week vacation, or parking spot.

If you concentrate on what you want, and not on why you want it, I find the negotiations go smoother. Of course, sometimes you just have to walk away if the two sides are too far apart.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[JsTyLz]

Who ever said that the prospective company deserves your salary is completely wrong. Never put your salary on the negotiations. Do they ever put down what they are willing to pay you before you even interview.... no. Do they tell you about the every day stuff that will drive you nuts... no. So don't think you have to put down your salary, HR will always pay less than what you want if you don't ask for more.
Look at it this way, pertaining to asking for 40% more, if you don't shoot, you don't score.

 

[Gymmeh]

Diggity,

I was in the same almost exact experiance, It didnt happen to be a job in Buffalo NY?

You might as well shot for what you want, or close to it, if you’re asking for a package that is realistic for the job market.

This is what happened for me...

I thought I aced two brutal interviews with 7 people at once and two guys were really hitting on my gpa, when my experience and other facts showed me to be very qualified at the position.

Then they offered an INSALTINGLY LOW salary and benefits, of course I started negotiating for even a 10% raise because they normally shot low... they didnt budge...

Me feeling really instated... maybe a tant to my pride... I told them that I felt over qualified for the position and after acing the toughest interview I have ever had, I was extremely insulted by their offer and I decided to decline the position. I also told them that they did a very poor job at selling their company to me. Setting up an interview in which I did not get to really meet with my direct supervisor(s) first so to actually get a little comfortable with them (and see if there a Jerk) was a big turn off. This way we did not have to waist everyone’s time on a second interview.

Oddly, I got another job with an 11% raise buy asking for a lower salary then the one they offered to get an extra week of vacation! The interviewer said they could not negotiate vacation but we can give me 11% more.

Good Luck!