Sanibel island causeway 10

[Frank2020]

Anyone have an opinion on time needed to rebuild/repair the causeway destroyed by Hurricane Ian? Will they nit use the little islands as anchors this time? Those were money makers for Lee County. Selfish inquiry as my mother is 96yrs old and Sanibel resident

 

[1503-44]

Exactly why there's gotta be a law. BTW desert vegetation, is even more severely affected. Once destroyed it can take decades to reappear, if it ever does.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[JohnRBaker]

Another way to make gas prices go up is increase the taxes on it. Simple, there be less demand.
I saw gas at $3.57 this morning, so CA its your taxes that are the issue.

The Chevron station down the street is selling regular for $6.799/gallon. Of that, 53.9 cents is state excise tax and there's a 2.25% sales tax, so that works out to about 55 cents/gallon. Deduct that from the price and we have $6.249. Now take your $3.57 and remove the 22 cent Colorado gas tax (I couldn't find whether you have a sales tax on gas or not) and you have $3.35 (I didn't account for federal taxes since we both pay the same). Now explain to me how the difference between what you pay and what we pay is because of OUR gasoline taxes. Even if I used the price at COSTCO, the cheapest gas around, the difference would still be over two dollars a gallon. That difference isn't going in taxes, it's going in oil company profits. Heck, they're making a crap load on your gas so think of what they're making on ours.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[EdStainless]

Yes John, because CA decided to make it's fuel 'special' and limit the amount of it available.
It is the artificial constraint of supply that pushes the price up.
The fuel is somewhat more expensive to make, so many out of state refineries don't want to bother with it.
That leaves the refineries in state, the ones that CA wants to shut down to supply all of the fuel.

Barrier islands are a resource. And for most towns this means that allowing expensive homes and hotels on them generates the most tax and tourism dollars. They definitely work on a short term view. If these projects had to be locally funded it would sure reduce the number of these islands that were built on. It will eventually get there, but it will take a few more storms.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[JohnRBaker]

Here are a couple of items of interest:

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-repo...stimated-gasoline-price-breakdown-and-margins

https://www.capradio.org/articles/2...lifornia-heres-why-they-are-increasing-again/

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[dik]

Thanks, John... In the long run, Ed, if climate change is caused largely by fossil fuels, expect far greater restrictions in the future, by all parties. Gasoline will become 'special' in a lot of areas, I suspect.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hawkaz]

This thread has gone off topic- Has anyone seen reports on damage to the main bridge? It is still standing, but politicians are indicating that it may have been damaged beyond repair.
It seems like the low causeway areas that were washed out could be repaired relatively easily.

 

[cranky108]

In tourist areas here, where they don't want people driving, they put barriers, like rocks, or a fence. If dune buggies driving on sensitive areas is a concern, just maybe they need to put barriers. Actually rocks would be good. And not the five pounders, but the 205 pounders or more.
A good barbe less fence (steel wire) and steel posts will corrode and disappear in a few years, but is not that difficult to put up.

Speaking of gas prices, here we are closer to production of oil and gas, which may have some to do with the lower prices. I am sure transportation costs do enter into the price. Also they do have seasonal blends of fuel here, so some of the special blend price is also seen here. But also since we are closer to the alcohol production areas of the flyover states, that is cost less to transport.

Also note that most refineries are set up for area specific crude oils. And I have heard the ones in CA are set up for heavy Alaska crude. Maybe it costs more to refine that.

 

[bones206]

What was the peak storm surge for this storm? I saw estimates of 12-18ft during landfall, but cannot find any data that confirms.

I worked on a project in Miami a few years ago that was designed for a year 2075 storm event. The design basis for flood elevation was based on 4 ft assumed sea level rise(!), storm surge, 100 year rainfall, 2 ft safety factor and 1 ft freeboard. That brought it up to +19ft NGVD. So when I saw 18 ft being reported for Ian, it raised my eyebrows.

 

[phamENG]

bones - I've been looking for the same thing. All I could find were pictures of houses with clear waterlines (mud clinging the walls) within a foot of the ceiling (assume the floor is at least 3 feet above the water, that puts you at about 10 feet) and one of what looked like a small fishing trawler sitting on a house - that might get close to that 18ft number.

 

[TugboatEng]

7.5 feet where the eye landed.

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/inundationdb/

That's about double the previous listed high.

 

[JohnRBaker]

I suspect that the maximum storm surge would have occurred where the strongest onshore winds would have hit, which would have been just South of where the eye made landfall.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[1503-44]

I've heard it said Ian was a 1000yr storm. 4' and 2075 sounds like a 50yr event. 4' is nothing for a hurricane.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[hokie66]

This video says the storm surge was 15' at Ft Myers Beach, which is believable. But there was also a foot of rain in a short period, so local flooding would have contributed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al8yTiCVfro

 

[bones206]

Just to clarify, the 4 ft number represents the projected sea level rise by the year 2075. That’s the supposed baseline before a storm even hits.

That was based on a study commissioned by the state. It actually was revised up from 3 ft during the design phase because climate change projections were evolving.

 

[FacEngrPE]

Naples FL tide station

https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/stationhome.html?id=8725110

was perhaps a bit south of the storm landfall. The station home page now displays Disabled - Sep 28 2022 5:08PM, Station sustained damage, awaiting replacement or repair. The station wen offline before maximum water level.

Fort Myers tide station peaked at 7.51 ngvd, this station is upriver, so it will not see the maximum storm surge.

Ian emergency response imagery is now posted at

https://storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/ian/index.html#9/26.4200/-81.9700

 

[TugboatEng]

The Naples station should have the worst but they don't have data, current or historical.

 

[hawkaz]

I heard that temporary repairs to the causeway will be done by the end of the month. Has anyone heard specifics of what will be done?
I gather this means the main bridge was fine afterall

 

[JedClampett]

No specifics, but it might be very limited in speed. I heard it might be a pontoon, but I'm guessing someone has a few spare highway bridge beams in a yard that will span the piers.

 

[JedClampett]

I guess there's a bridge to Pine Island that's already repaired. No details in the linked article. It adds that the bridge to Sanibel Island will be done by the end of the month.

 

[djs]

I just heard that the causeway is now open to utility trucks. Not yet open to the general public.