Small or big firm? 1

[sctiger07]

I'm trying this again b/c my previous post was deleted...

I'm early on in my career, 2 years out of school, and am trying to decide what career path would be better in terms of experience and advancement possibilities: a large firm(international type design/construction firms) or a smaller firm (20 person staff, regional-type firm).

All of my experience so far (current job and internships) is with the smaller type firms, working on residential and commercial buildings as a consultant to architects. This is the path I've envisioned for myself for awhile now, but I'm starting to have second thoughts.

I really like the ability to work on a pretty wide variety of projects and participate in all aspects of the building design that comes with a smaller consulting firm. On the other hand, I see a relatively limited opportunity for advancement working for a smaller firm.

With a larger company, I'm somewhat concerned that I could possibly be pigeon holed into doing the same type of design work over and over, and would end up with relatively narrow experience. The plus side is that there may be more opportunities for advancement and moving into management positions.

I'd really appreciate some different opinions/observations on the pros/cons of each career path.

Thanks!

 

[KENAT]

I'm pretty sure a very similar question has been asked before, maybe a year or so ago, maybe a bit more. I realize the search functionality of this site isn't always great but give it a go - there was a lot there as I recall.

thread731-199150 turned up straight away and I'm sure there was another that I'd posted to.

thread732-47523 vaguely relevant.

thread731-256277 may also apply.

I'm pretty sure there's been at least one other but as you're the one that wants to know I'll let you continue the search.

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[NCCaryME]

I've only worked for small consulting firms (10-15 employee and 40-50 employees currently) and I can say that I have been very happy. If you are only considering vertical "advancement" then yes it is limited, but your seniority and responsibility will grow as your career does. I find I've been asked to branch out and wear many "hats" which I doubt happens as often in a big firm. Of course, I have no experience to speak of when it comes to larger firms. All I can offer is that of my college friends, I have several at large firms, a few at small firms like mine, and a couple who have started their own small practices. From what I know all are happy.

Keep in mind that your decision is never permanent and if you find yourself unhappy where you are, look for something different. You have a long career ahead of you and it's almost a guarantee that you won't be at the same place for the duration so go with whichever gives you the best feeling now, and re-evaluate regularly.

 

[ctopher]

Unless you are one of the lucky ones that knows somebody in a big company that gets you a nice position, I would prefer the smaller company. IMO, smaller companies give you more room to grow and you can learn from the more experienced.
In bigger companies you can be lost in the crowd...you're just a number.

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[trchambe]

I'm in a similar situation (1 year out of school in a 15 employee firm), and have been considering the same thing you seem to be. There is no way I'll advance, unless I were to buy into the company. My thought, however, is "Why would anybody want to advance someone with 1-2 years experience anyway?" I plan on staying with a small firm until I get several (3-5) years of varied experience, then going to a slightly larger firm to begin my attempt at advancement. I realize you need to put in the time at a larger firm before advancement is even an option... but enjoy the 'many hats' and increased experience for a while.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Yes and No - both have their pluses and minuses....I have worked for both. Had a bit more fun in the smaller ones - but getting much better pay and benefits in the larger one..

But I have heard just the opposite from others. Flip the coin.

Any company is only as good as it is going to be...and your atitude may have a lot to do with that....

 

[cvg]

advancement can happen at any time regardless of company size. Depends on your abilities, experience and motivation as well as what the company needs. But forget about significant advancement with just a couple years experience. More important is the type of work. Do you prefer working for architects or designing bridges or would you prefer dams and levees? Do you want to design 2 story houses or 20 story high rises? Suspension bridges or 2 lane county bridges? Pre-fab metal buildings or powerplants? Search for what you like and then worry about how big the firm is.

 

[rowingengineer]

There is a common misconception that in the big firms you will get more senior roles faster, truth is that you won't. The main difference is that you may get to design a part of a big project, and may get better training in the area of the big firm expertise.

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

 

[sctiger07]

Thanks for all the responses. I'm not looking to switch right away, and I realize I need a lot more experience before I move up at all...just wanted to see what other people had to say on the issue.

 

[asixth]

What you want to do is find a large company with a well established system and development program. It is not nice doing the same thing over and over again, although you will get good at designing that one element or type of construction.

I have worked in smaller firms, one specializing in tensioned fabric design and a second which does all typical forms of construction and have been thinking about applying at some larger companies to widen my consulting experience.

 

[Ron]

I've worked for large, small and in between...a very large, international consulting firm, a smaller regional consulting firm, and my own firm with anywhere from 1 to 13 employees.

In the larger firm, you have to do a lot more to distinguish yourself. You're one of many. You get what the masses get unless you are outstanding. Usually in the large firms there are two career paths...management and technical. Those who choose management and survive it will be rewarded with more perqs and salary. Those who choose the technical side will typically find a slow grind to the "top", which is still below the management side! Believe me...I've been there. I worked completely on the technical side in the very large firm. After 15 years became a minor "officer". At 17 years, a VP. I was given the highest technical position in the company (1 of 25 at that level), but my salary lagged behind a manager with comparable experience.

In the mid-level firm, I was both technical and management. My management position was 2nd to the president(1 of 4 in that position...all equal in responsibility and position). My technical position was high because of my experience with the larger firm...they wanted to emulate the larger firm, so several of us were accorded rather high technical "respect" for our past experience.

In my own firms (twice in 25 years), none of that crap prevails. I do what I choose, when I choose and answer only to my clients (...well, and the wife!). I enjoy that. I'm not much of a corporate player...I hate corporate politics. I enjoy working with other engineers, not other managers. I don't mind running a business, but I hate the administrative tasks. I'm decisive, I just don't want to always be the person to do the mundane admin and management tasks. My associates understand that. One of them picks up a large part of the admin. and the rest chip in. ALL of the associates in my company are ENGINEERS first...anything else is second.

 

[Twoballcane]

I have a brother (who is an engineer) who workd for a small company where everybody knows the owner. When my brother quit the wife of the owner actually called to berate him for leaving. LOL

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[brandoncdg]

Smaller firms I think are always better. From what I have seen they run more tightly with being much more lenient.

My business is small, but even though I am probably looked as insane on what and how fast I want work done, I am much more willing to let certain things slide. I felt like the places I worked before were like this. Imagine doing a 20+ hour straight job, then coming in after 4 hours of sleep, and then the boss either lets you go home or not, early. The larger places I don't think will let this happen. That's my crazy example of somewhere.

I also loved how the smaller places let the owners families kids run around or bring pets and stuff. That brings a nice break to all the office nonsense.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

 

[Twoballcane]

I think that is one of the dilemmas of a small firm/company that the owner will do what s/he wants to do even if it is against better judgment. I've never worked in a small or even mid size companies, but some of the stories that I've heard borderline on ethical issues. At least in bigger companies, there is recourse with a third party that can question ethical issues before it goes too far. I’ve seen employees and mangers let go because of ethical issues. However, how can you do that with the owner?

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[rowingengineer]

I don't agree witht eh last post, ethical issues are just as likely in both forms of the game. I have just finished a review of a few designs by engineers from companies of all different sizes. My conclusion is that people are very unaware of what the word ethics means. The classic is engineer working in area’s were they don’t have the experience.

For example, a director or the second largest (I think) engineering company in my country had a junior develop a design for a simple tilt-up building, however both of the engineers involved were heavy mining engineers. The design they came up with was so out there that the builder refused to build it without a second engineer signing off on the plans. They had completely ignored the BCA (building code of Aust) AKA the end result was a redesign by rowingengineer.

An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field

 

[KENAT]

I've seen worse 'ethics, in my current fairly large employer than I saw at my fairly small employer.

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[Ron]

Ethics problems exist in small and large firms. Those are individual and need to be handled thusly. The repercussion for bucking an ethics issue are often greater in a small firm than a larger one.

Training and experience are usually greater in a larger firm; although you might get pidgeon-holed into mundane tasks with a larger firm. In a smaller firm, you're more likely to have a broad range of exposure and responsibility.

 

[Twoballcane]

Yes I agree that ethical issues do exits in large companies, but my point was in large companies we have an ethic's hotline we can call. Do small companies have the same resource? And, it does work. I have seen employees and managers alike get reprimanded or even dismissed because of their unethical actions. Can the employee tell the owner that what you are doing is unethical? And, if the owner continues, what recourse does a small company (other than just leave) do about it?

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[Twoballcane]

Correction: And, if the owner continues, what recourse does a small company EMPLOYEE (other than just leave) do about it?

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."

 

[KENAT]

Twoballcane, not sure where a 1000 or so person company falls in on your definition of the large/small company, I'd think reasonably large.

To the best of my knowledge we have no ethics hotline. Also, most of the worst ethical issues I've seen have been by senior staff.

Of course, perhaps my definition of 'ethical issues' is different from yours too.

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