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Smart Grid 19

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I actually don't think we need it, or the super powerlines the Fed's think we do.

Market pricing is nice, but with a binning process in the meters, and a one way radio siginal, we can do that now without the high speed communications.
Besides studies have shown that most residential customers won't change there habits due to small rate changes.

To make large changes you probally need to attach an advanced rate to industrials.

When you propose forcing people to use less, under any means, then it's nothing but big goverment.
 
What is not to like about Smart Grid?

1) it will give the utilities and eventually the government full access to information about what you are doing and when.

2) it will give the utilities and eventually the government a reason to charge and tax more for the same service we already recieve.

3) it will give the utilities and government the ability to turn off smart appliances.

4) it will give the government the opportunity to promote a whole new line of appliances as "green"; nothing better than environmental consumerism.

5) it has already given the utilities and government permission to NOT construct needed facilities, instead substituting imagined resources.

5) it is a new and catchy name for power rationing, time of day billing and curtailment, that have existed since the dawning of electricity.

6) it is something better understood by journalism and sociology students than engineering students and therein lies the popularity :)

(and it has nothing to do with remote meter reading which is old school and already deployed by many utilities)
 
Electic,

You might have hit the big something there with your power rationing theory. If its true that 100 nuclear plants must be built over the next 20 yrs to keep up with demand, and 0 of 10 have not begun permitting already this year, and they will cost round about 1 trillion $ to build, brown/black outs may become a lot more common in the future then what we've been used to. That explains all the flash and benign words being used too.

**********************
"Being GREEN isn't easy" ..Kermit

 
Electic, BigInch:

It is not very nice to take candy away from kids!

Plus what is wrong with utility company or govt. telling us when to take a hot shower or do our laundry? I think more they decide for us, the better. As that frees up our minds and we can concentrate on more important things and be more productive!

Rafiq Bulsara
 
Now the utility company I work the title of the planning division was changed to "Smart Grid". The name which we have been using in the past 60 years was simply vanished.
Thanks to "smart grid"
 
From the sparks of the tempest, "You don't know the difference as you put on the yoak".

yes I think I spelled it wrong too.
 
I noted this well painted picture on another forum. Personally I think this is the sad future - Orwellian society.

Bean said:
The "smart grid" will rely on "smart meters" and "smart receptacles" and "smart plugs" to ration power based on criteria. How much power do YOU get? It depends on what YOU use it for and what YOUR carbon footprint is.

The plans are already in place and the devices being tested in several markets. Dozens of companies are in the game and YOU the consumer have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Your AC unit will cost more to run per KWh than your water heater or alarm clock. Instead of tiered rates based on overall usage, you will pay tiered rates based on the TYPE of usage and or your personal (or family) carbon footprint, and historical usage rates, and or local standards.

Somebody will determine what an acceptable AC thermostat level is and fine you, (on your bill), for power used if the thermostat is set lower than the acceptable temperature. They may also outright LOCK your thermostat or other devices to pre-approved levels or usage windows.

Try this on for size:
You have your AC set at 70 degrees. The powers that be decide that in Area X, (where you live), that 76 degrees is the acceptable standard for homes. Meanwhile 2 states away, the energy supply to Area Y is maxed. The "smart grid" decides that it needs to divert power to Area Y. The "smart grid" asks the "smart meters" to report what users are running "luxury items". YOUR meter reports that YOU are running your AC at 70 degrees and the local acceptable setting is 76 degrees. So, the "Smart grid" tells your "smart meter" to shut down the "smart receptacle" that is running your AC unit and only cycle it at 76 degrees as needed to maintain the "acceptable" temperature. At the same time your "smart meter" talks to your "smart plug" on your coffee pot and turns it OFF because coffee is a luxury and the power required to run it is needed elsewhere.

Bypassing the "smart receptacles" will be a felony, just like bypassing any other utility system meter or control device. Conspiracy theory? Nope... dozens of companies are already producing and testing the products, and draft legislation is already being marked up to give control of your thermostat, and electrical devices to the government. Europe is already rolling out these systems and is scheduled to go live in 2013.

Do you honestly think that a fish tank will be allowed, or that 62" TV set? What happens when the meter decides that you can only watch the 20" set due to your carbon footprint for the month?

You may want to read some of the laws already enacted in Europe and being drafted here. No joke, a government body is going to decide when and what you can power. All new electrical devices will have smart meter compatible addressing in them so that the "smart receptacle, meter, and grid", can identify them and control them when needed.

Just because we have the ability to monitor and control something does not mean that we necessarily should.
Click to expand...

Keith Cress
kcress -
 
I noted this well painted picture on another forum. Personally I think this is the sad future - Orwellian society.
Click to expand...
This will only come about with government action. Private utilities have no incentive to do any of this. We still have the ability to choose our government, so let's choose representatives who will not impose this stuff on us.
 
This will only come about with government action. Private utilities have no incentive to do any of this. We still have the ability to choose our government, so let's choose representatives who will not impose this stuff on us.
Click to expand...

OK, but just think about some of the other "stuff" that's been imposed on us and ask yourself if you believe an election would change anything.

 
Private utilities have no incentive to do any of this.
Click to expand...

I ponder this more and have to ask exactly why a utility would not want the ability to selectively direct a limited amount of power to the highest bidders?
 
Regulated utilities aren't allowed a profit that exceeds a percentage of invested plant. And non-profit utilities don't make any profit. So selling to the highest bidder isen't that attractive.

On the non-regulated side, there is a profit motive. But diverting power from the regulated customers to the non-regulated side is foolish in todays political world.

If the smart grid is actually controlled by the goverment, then can we really call it smart?
 
I wasn't referring to any present utility price or regulation structure...
 
Actually industrial customers are the big users, and there price is lower than that of resedential. So selling to the highest bidder woulden't be cutting power to resedential.

This looks more like providing power to the most politically connected, and cutting power to you low lifes.
 
So instead of basing opinions on facts, let's speculate wildly.
 
Ok.. um.. ok.. I know!
Let's speculate that North Korea would randomly torpedo a South Korean corvette. Naw!
2qu5d3o.gif
, that would be ridiculous and absurd!

Let me change from that absurd speculation to.... How about.... The stock market dropping about a thousand points then returning in an hour!

Ah.. I'm being moronic!
6okguh2.gif


I'll try to be more realistic. How about.. as they are setting the tables for a 'Job Well Done, and a Safety Awards, combined banquet" for finishing a technically challenging deep ocean oil well, the well blows out, incinerates, and sinks the pending banquet and a 2 billion dollar ship! Lets cap it off by having a multi-million dollar five story blowout preventer fail to-do-anything!!
2lcpruf.gif


Ah no, this is just too wild. I give up..
1exd88.gif





I guess my point is that if stuff like this can happen, then having the power companies and politicians running their everyday Divide and Conquer schemes against us, using 'political correctness' and 'environmental concern' to control our energy and wallets - doesn't really surprise me. You only have to look at how they banned incandescent bulbs to replace them with compact fluorescents.



Keith Cress
kcress -
 
Keith, you can add that the government would never use the current fuel injection systems in trucks to impose and enforce a speed limit... Oh wait, that's happened too.

 
Sustained progress requires distinguishing a glitch from a boondoggle so you don't spend all your resources for no result.

Experience provides the necessary visual acuity.



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
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