Starting the Life 1

[Angothoron]

Hello all,

I have lurked on these forums for the past few years as I was working my way through my degree, and now that I have my first job working as a CAD Technician. I have a few questions about making my way through the next few years.

So as not to waste any more of your time.

Question #1: I have no co-op experience but a decent GPA and it took me 6 months to find a job. I moved across the country to take it, the pay isn't great and as I stated it is a CAD Tech position. I am fairly good with CAD and for the most part enjoying it, but I want to know the general outlook on how long I should give it to transform into an engineering position so I don't get sucked down the path of "CAD jockey", that I have heard about.

As well as if there is anything I can do outside of work that might be beneficial to my future I would like to hear it. For the past couple of weeks I have been trying to get an idea of what the three engineers around me have been working on so in a week or so I can do two to three hours of work trying to solve what they are doing at home. Or would I be better off just working on a separate project all together? If so should it be related to my work, or in another unrelated field (Example: Machine design (Day Work) vs Thermodynamics (Side Project))

Question #2: I am looking at working towards Canadian Welding Bureau's Engineering certification as ideally I would like to get into some kind of joinery design. If anyone has gone through a similar process any insight would be appreciated.

Question #3: I expect to move out of province at least one more time in the next five years, and If there are any Canadian engineers on these boards I would like to know what the accepted standard is for licencing. Licence in the province of education, first position, or first solid job? As well as any information which you feel might be advantageous for a newcomer to know and hasn't been posted here for a while.

As I re-read some of that I want to be clear that I am not looking to drop this place of work, Ideally I would like to morph my job into an engineering position rather than leave it. However I do want a timeline which would be generally considered a danger sign in the industry.

Thanks in advance for any insight you wish to provide.

 

[msquared48]

BA Retired is the one to comment here on this...

As for "Morphing" the job, seems to me that is out of your control. You need to be wary here of the time you spend actually being under another licensed engineer, not a technician or senior cad drafter. Otherwise, you may not be able to count your time as professional.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[MikeHalloran]

But you can still learn from the time.
Ask questions.
Better, ask specific, intelligent questions that show you have been paying attention to the engineering that's going on around you.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[KENAT]

When you say 'CAD technician' what does that encompass? Are you using 3D CAD? ARe you creating drawings (or potentially MBD)? There is a lot more to good drafting than knowing the buttons in the CAD system etc. Very few grads know how to draft properly (heck, a lot of not so new grads aren't great either), let alone do tolerancing or heaven forbid properly apply GD&T. So while may think it will suck you into CAD Jockey ville in my opinion it's still worth learning to do these things properly. It will at least give you the option of taking jobs where you need to do your own CAD work which are very common these days from what I see.

As to what to work on outside work, well certainly doing some analysis or similar of something you're working on would be one way to go. That way if you find something of note it directly applies to what you're doing for the company.

Looking at things your colleagues are working on could be good - so long as you do it in a way that doesn't seem like you're second guessing them.

Working on your own novel idea for something at work might be good too - though you may not have quite the experience yet to know what would be of value (I still struggle on this one).

Working on stuff relevant to a field you want to go into in the future could be an idea - to give you something to talk about at an interview in that field perhaps.

Or working on the stuff you don't get to do at work just to keep your hand in may not be a bad idea.

Finally just working on something you enjoy/of interest you - so you remember why you became an engineer in the first place has merit.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[kylesito]

In the US, we have organizations such as ASME. I am heavily invovled in ASCE and I believe there are a few canadian chapters for that...maybe ASME is the same.

Regardless, I would highly encourage you to get involved in some type of professional organization or group similar to ASME or something that relates directly to the line of work you are doing. And don't just show up for meetings and eat the free appetizers! Volunteer for a position of leadership, offer to do the newsletter, etc.

Taking on leadership roles in these groups will build your network of colleagues and clients. A strong network of these individuals will lead to more recogition for you in the community, possible project opportunities, and possibly even new jobs down the road.

This is important in your case because you need to demonstrate you are valuable to the company you are working for as more than just a CAD operator. The best way to do that is to get your company to notice that you are noticed in the engineering community around you. The more noticeable you are = the more noticeable the company is and you will have increased your value without ever having to 'morph' into anything.

I have direct experience with this myself. I was never going to get anywhere at a company I used to work for. When I started volunteering in this outside organizations, I was able to learn some managment skills and honed my ability to relate to clients...once my company realized that, I started getting handed more responsibility and promotions!

PS - Don't worry too much about the CAD experience. Engineers are doing more and more CAD because it's becoming so integrated with our analysis software all the time. It can be good experience just to learn how to draft what you will eventually design!


PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[jmcoope3]

The problem with offering services outside of your position for free is that people will take you up on it. I started as an estimator two years ago, and now I do full submittals (Details, Calculations, consulting, etc.) as well as estimation and whatever else they provide me with.

Just understand that they hired you to do CAD and they will pay you like you're still doing CAD. If the experience is enough, by all means put yourself out there. Let your managers know you are capable of more and prove it (don't just say it). After your two years, jump ship with a fancy new resume and find a place that'll pay you for what you were doing.

Being a "CAD Guy" isn't necessarily a bad thing, chances are if you do progress you will probably have a few CAD guys under you. Knowing the processes, hurdles, necessary information, and being able to create a legitimate time frame is invaluable.

There is value in every experience. Good luck.

 

[MadMango]

If you are doing "CAD work" chances are you are being directed by an engineer or working on Engineering Changes. Make your intentions known that you want an engineering position, but I'd wait a few months until you can perform your current job well. Pick the brain of the engineer feeding you work. Why is a component designed a particular way? Why was a particular material selected instead of another? How is the component being manufactured (milled, cast, injected)? Discuss why specific requirements like finish or heat treatment is required. Also, there is no harm in knowing the reasons behind the requested changes that hit your desk, get out on the assembly or production floor and talk with the people doing the work. Many times the changes being requested are not the solving the problem, only getting rid of symptoms. People that show initiative, common sense, and intelligence rarely stay at the same level within a corporation. As to how long it will take for you to transition, that depends on you and your company culture. It could be 3-6 months, or years.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of these Forums?

 

[Sparweb]

Don't worry about having no co-op experience. 3 months here, 3 months there, it doesn't add up much. My summer terms, I felt like I was only starting to figure out what was going on by the time September came around.

I'm going to assume, since you say you moved across the country, that you've plunked yourself down in Alberta for this job. If so, great! Welcome to paradise.

Passtimes outside of work are most satisfying if they truly interest you, not if you only do them for career advancement. If you're truly interested in engineering (the reason you stuck through 4+ years of university) then there are probably a few projects or areas of technology that stick with you. Going deeper into those subjects, even if they're not related to work now, will be good for your mind and soul. In the long term it will loop around and make you a better engineer to practice a bit of engineering in all your life, in balance, by looking for problems you enjoy solving and seeing through to the end, whether re-wiring your house, roofing your garage, re-tuning your car, or making bicycles from cardboard (I'm not kidding, google it). Basically I'm saying that no hobby is a waste of time, if you enjoy it. The intangible benefit from any hobby can move your career forward.

I'm not big on welding certifications, though I confess to sometimes sneaking out at night and Migging a butt joint or two. I am wondering if you are looking into a specific trade or if you want to stay on the engineering and design track? If you want to become an industrial welder, you're looking at a training course, an apprenticeship, then building time until you earn your journeyman's certificate. Hardly an office job, but if the stuffy atmosphere of the CAD station is going to get you down, then by all means get out there and light the torch. Later in life that experience will be an asset - but - you're setting aside the asset you already have, your university degree. Cart before the horse.

On the last subject, you really don't have to worry about the transferrability of your credentials, not any more. What you do have to watch is that your boss is actually a registered engineer, in good standing, for your experience under him/her to count toward your own registration. I almost got caught in that trap. The provincial associations have started striking members from the roll when they don't pay up, or meet the requirements for professional development. The rules are getting more stringent, and some engineers don't understand the benefit of being or staying registered (in my experience). You can start the registration process now, for free (in Alberta AFAIK) as an "EIT", and start building the time. They're the ones to tell you how well your current job will fit the experience requirements.


STF

 

[CivilTom]

In in the same boat... I graduated with a civil degree and no matter what " engineer" Job I get I seem to end up as a drafter.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Maybe it is the bottom of their ladder to engineer!!??

 

[kylesito]

My first two years on the job were spent either 1) drafting or 2) counting piece marks on material delivery. It's tough starting out but it's the way it is. You can't design anything until you know how to show what you have designed on a piece of paper.



PE, SE
Eastern United States

"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi

 

[spongebob007]

My belief is that more and more engineers are glorified drafters thanks to CAD and corporate bean counters. I was in the transitional period from drafting board to CAD. In high school I took two years of drafting as electives. One year of mechanical drafting and one year of architectural drafting. All of the work was done on the drafting board. Drafting on the board is a skill and maybe even an art. In College drafting was covered during one semester of freshman year. This was board drafting. My school had a whole room of drafting boards. The next year all the drafting boards were replaced with CAD stations and later on I learned AutoCAD.

In the eyes of bean counters, the ease of CAD makes skilled draftsmen redundant. Anyone can push buttons and make pretty pictures so the trend has been either replacing skilled draftsmen with lower paid CAD jockies or eliminating the drafters/designers completely and throwing the work at the engineers.

 

[KM]

Re: Question 1 - Your commitment to outside-of-work studying is exemplary! I second kylesito's suggestion about joining a technical society.

Re: Question 2 - Welding engineering could be good and flexible, as you could work either for a company or for yourself. I assume you're familiar with

http://eng.cwbgroup.org

and

http://www.cwbinstitute.org

? There are also courses available through

http://www.asminternational.org

on the metallurgy of welding and joining, etc. I've taken their "Corrosion" and "Failure Analysis" home-study courses and their material is quite good, I learned a lot. Suggest that one of these types of courses would fulfill your desire for self-directed continuing education.

Re: Question 3 - EIT experience is transferable between provinces: See #2 here:

http://www.peng.ca/english/students/faqs.html

Further to the continuing ed thing, only Ontario does not require a certain number of continuing education hours as a requirement for continued licensing. No idea why, but it's been tremendously controversial whenever PEO has broached the topic. Every other province and territory requires it, but Ontario engineers find it a huge and onerous thing.

 

[Angothoron]

Thanks for the information all. It helps to know that this is more valuable than previous research led me to believe. And I will begin looking into engineering societies.