stating salary requirements 2

[boffintech]

Today’s classified ads feature a listing for an engineer (unspecified with 3 years experience in manufacturing). The bottom of the ad reads “Resumes without salary requirements will not be considered.”

What do you make of that?

 

[boffintech]

What I do not understand is what is so relevant about my current salary? Obviously the prospective employer is looking for a baseline from which to begin negotiations. Well I wouldn’t be considering changing employers if my current employer rewarded my talents to my satisfaction. I mean who changes employers to do the same work for the same pay? As Mr. Halloran pointed out, my current salary is relevant only if the prospective employer is proposing to pay me to do my current job. If the prospective employer needs a baseline from which to begin salary negotiations let him look at the market, his budget, his work load, and my resume and go from there.

Am I way off base with this thought process?

 

[mrMikee]

I think the way companies set salary levels is less scientific than most people think. They want to know what you make and then offer you that and a percentage more, the percentages depending on factors like the economy, demand, and so on. The job candidate and the company are seldom thinking of the same number to start with so it is probably best if salaries are discussed later rather than sooner, when it's established that a good match between the candidate and position is possible.

Getting back to the original post, an advertised position that asks for your current salary is letting you know that the salary offer will be low regardless of experience or qualifications. There won't be much negotiating of salaries involved.

 

[boffintech]

This company posts its salary ranges on its web site. I don't think I have ever seen this on any other web site. Interesting.

http://www.gallet.com/salary.htm

 

[IRstuff]

Salary is NOT the noly measure of job satisfaction.

What if your commute suddenly increased by 30 minutes or your spouse's job changed and now you have to do something different? What if you got reassigned to a toad?

TTFN

 

[vooter]

djv: "What if before they interviewed you they set a budget for the position that was $15k to $25k higher than $XX,XXX? You've just screwed yourself out of some money they were prepared to pay. And maybe you've just let the interviewer know that you don't think you're worth much."

Good point. But...

If you're doing an in-person interview, you're already somewhat in the door. AND, if the position is similar to your current job, then you know what they'll pay. If the position is an obvious promotion, do the research and ask for what the salary surveys say is the right money for that job. If you really are what the company wants, they'll pay.

For example, if you're a senior civil at firm A, how much more is firm B going to pay for the same job? Sure, there may be different perqs, different location, different type projects, etc., but it's still the "same" thing you're doing now. Why go through the headache of changing jobs for the same money?

Another example. You're a senior civil with 15 years' experience in design. Time to move into design management (and, yep, "business development"). That's a lot more responsibility. The salary survey says you should be making $110k. Right now you're making $85k. The interviewer asks what you want. Tell 'em "at least $25k more." If they say they are only prepared to give you $20k more, you've won the negotiation because they've let you see their hand. If they say that's too much, consider yourself in negotiations and go with it.

Considering that companies pay recruiters a lot of money just to find people, they're certainly going to pay a premium for your services - if you are what they think they want.

 

[ARenko]

vooter,

Of course you need to do the research and know what you are worth and what you want and you can probably expect that if they do their research their numbers will fall in line with yours, but I still say make them give the first number - you may end up pleasantly suprised.

You say you've won the negotiation when you've seen their hand, but guess what? It was after you'd shown them yours. Maybe their standard is to drop 5k off your request and see if you bite.

Also, what if you say "I want 25k more" and the interviewer says "ok, no problem" without batting an eye. Won't you wonder if you could've got $30k more?

Anyway, we could give a bunch of scenarios. As long as you're happy with the salary in the end, that's what matters.

 

[IRstuff]

This reminds of a trip to Cabo I took once. We went to the beach and there were these vendors selling blankets. I asked how much and one replied, "$20," and I returned with "$10," and closed the deal.

My friend laughed and said, "You're a crappy negotiator and could have gotten a much better price."

So, he accosts another vendor and enters into negotiations. 20 minutes later, he returned with a $10 blanket.

If you're willing to work for what they offer, then all is good. Anything else is buyer's remorse and whining.

TTFN

 

[HVAC68]

A lot also depends on who's more desperate - you to get the job or they to get somebody like you on board.

HVAC68

 

[aspearin1]

On job applications, I almost always write in N/A for salary history, especially if prior to an interview. I had one company call me on it, asking me why I did not fill it in. I told them I didn't think my salary history should have any bearing on the upcoming interview. They told me they considered salary history to be a good gauge of employee worth, and that they assume my current company was fair and equitable with salaries and salary increases. I told them such assumptions were off. Still today, I leave my salary history off the applications, unless of course I already received an offer. It's an indication to me that they are not willing to take a much of a chance on a new hire, that they are not willing to do their own personnel screening based on resumes and experience, and that they will be penny pinching me every year I work there, despite the company size.

ChemE, M.E. EIT
"The only constant in life is change." -Bruce Lee

 

[dporte17]

Like many other negotiations, the best way of getting what you want is knowing what the other side can offer you. Going into interviews I always know what the statistics are for similar jobs in the area. If they ask my what I want, I give them the figure for the upper decile. My position is that they want someone in the top ten percent of their peers, so they should be prepared to pay for that. If they can’t afford that, then tell me that and give me an offer, which I will consider relative to the other factors that affect my job satisfaction.

As for salary history, I have rarely been asked for it, but when I have, I provided it. The interesting part of it was that I took a pay cut (relatively large) at one point because I liked the other factors affecting job choice. This has created some good conversation during interviews.

Dave

 

[jgailla]

I had a boss who told me, just before he left (which I didn't know at the time), that I was worth whatever I thought I was worth. Obviously, some people have ridiculous expectations, but if you have realistic expectations, especially in certain markets, you can do very well. I am now considering a few different jobs, all of which offer a significant raise. My former boss, as well as others, have offered (informally) salaries well in excess of my current salary. I didn't even have to ask. If you do your job well, i.e. show up and just work, you will do very well in the current climate (at least where I am). We all have to work to live, but good workers can write their own ticket (within reason). I'm not worried about a couple thousand a year here or there, the people you work with and their attitudes are vastly more important. You spend 40 (really 50) hours of your life at work. The people are the most important factor, because markets always find an equiliibrium and you will get a similar offer everywhere. If you are unhappy at your job, at least in civil, it's your fault. Everyone naturally thinks they're worth more than they're getting paid, which may or may not be true, but who cares. They pay me to go out to job sites and say Yup or Nope. No worries, holler at contractors, kiss their @$$e$, the job gets done and I get to go home and drink. This is a great time for an engineer to be alive. I hear horror stories about the early 80's and just thank god I'm living now, where I have ten jobs I can get and will excel at all of them by showing up, working when I'm there, and being honest. Not a bad gig.

 

[HgTX]

My mother's going through a job search right now, and for some jobs the only way to apply is online, and there's the mandatory form with all the basic info, including salary range. It's an awful thing--she's flexible, so she's afraid of pricing herself out of consideration for certain jobs by picking a higher range, or screwing herself out of money (or indicating that she's not of an appropriate level for the higher-paid jobs) by picking a lower range.

I think the whole thing is crap. Decide you want to hire the person, make them an offer, and if it's too low either there will be a negotiation or they'll decline. Forcing the applicant to play the game of guessing what you had in mind is just plain cruel and unnecessary.

Hg

Eng-Tips guidelines: faq731-376

 

[RDK]

Remember people value something based on what they pay for it.

I doubled my fees and quickly doubled my billable hours for a 400% increase in income.

A friend of mine tried running a computer repair business from his home. His fees were 30% of the downtown firms (one of which hired him after he gave up his own business). I tried to get him to charge the going rate in town but he never had enough confidence in himself to ask that much and went out of business. The downtown firm where he ended up had no problem hiring him out at the going rate, sometimes to clients who passed over him at the 30% rate.


Initially ask in the high end of the going rate, negotiate downwards only if offered something in return, OK $2,000 less but I get a company car.

This works best if you have a job you like and could stay in for a while.

In any negotiation always know your and the oppositions best alternative to a negotiated solution. Yours is continuing as you are in your present position (or lack of a position if unemployed) theirs is the other candidate. Think through the implications for both sides.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[pba]

The original post stated -"Resumes without salary requirements will not be considered". If you are interested in the job, the best bet is to send your Resume WITH SALARY REQUIREMENT.

It does not strike me as a problem. Whenever I've changed jobs there has been a modest increase in salary which has suited me. Most companies advertising a position have an idea of the salary they will pay. If you are seeking a similar job it stands to reason that the salary will also be similar. If you are looking to step up then you would expect a significant increase in salary but would also be best positioned by identifying that you know it is a step up.

When I've been in the position of interviewing candidates, I always look for genuine (or at least plausible) reasons why they want the job. Having the matter of salary already covered, or at least sidelined, should allow the employer to concentrate on your qualities as a person and engineer!

 

[epoisses]

I guess it's quite reasonable for a company to ask a salary history, after all they need to know whether they can probably offer you what they want or not.

It is.... let's say... intelligent for a company to ask for salary REQUIREMENTS. They force you to make the first move, which is disadvantageous. (That's also why antique and high-end jewelry and clothes are never price tagged in the shopping window).

Black on white or in a mandatory on-line form you just don't have much choice. You then have two options: either find an alternative way to apply for the job, or make sure you are not bound by your requirement initially stated by making sure it is a large range OR stating that it is conditional, depending on exact job content or whatever else you think it depends on.

Just think aloud about what would really determine if you'd be happy with a salary proposal of XXk$, and just mention those very same reasons to the interviewer. No need to make it more complicated then that.

The number that you finally land on depends on your negotiation skills. This is a mixture of talent and experience. The fundamental thing to know is that you need a good argument for wanting a higher number. When I got this job I had given them my salary history but during the negotiations I mentioned I was supposed to get an X% raise the next year in my previous job (which was true). We landed on 1/2X% higher. Always keep such things in your pocket to use them at the right moment.