The attack sub USS Connecticut, involved in an underwater collision in the South China Sea... 20

[dik]

The poem 'Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner' has several lines that I recall by heart, many of them famous:

The ice was here, the ice was there,
The ice was all around:

About, about, in reel and rout
The death-fires danced at night;
The water, like a witch's oils,
Burnt green, and blue and white.

Water, water, every where,
And all the boards did shrink;
Water, water, every where,
Nor any drop to drink.

As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.


Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[waross]

Otto Nordenskjöld led mineralogical expeditions to Patagonia in the 1890s, and to Alaska and the Klondike area in 1898.

Otto probably gave his name to the Nordenskjold River.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[RedSnake]

I guess we can rule out the "Whiskey on the rocks" problem that happened to U137

But maybe they meet one of this, China seems to have them too.

[youtube L26RZdmQ2nE]

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[JohnRBaker]

And on a lighter note...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[1503-44]

Oh good. I can finally put that question in the answered bin.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Maybe the subs were dealing with weakened hulls...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...l-test-results-for-navy-submarines/ar-AAQtLo5

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Ohh... that's a bit of a pickle for the Navy...

 

[dik]

Is there a real reason for that type of freezing temperature? It's not even realistic.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[moon161]

Sure,
1. Apple to apple comparison with other stuff tested to -100F. Not all testing need be a direct proxy for application.
2. Refrigeration systems other or gas expansion process (ballast blow)will get you that temperature.
3. So what. It's dishonest. Her objection to the test as 'stupid' seems to lack standing unless she's an expert on the application of the material instead of the production.

 

[1503-44]

Although liquid water will be warmer, there is nothing stopping ice from reaching extremely low temperatures.

 

[RedSnake]

I guess if you are planing on invading Russia through the the northeast passage it might be needed highest temp -89,2 °C.

But it might work with Whiskey too, like when the Russians went on a rock with there Whiskey Class SUB outside the Swedish naval base in Karlskrona
There was some debate if it was whiskey or vodka that was used to keep the temperature up, and then led up to this rock encounter.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I think moon has it with the cryogenic stuff onboard if they have any and ballast blow. If they blow and then the area around the port goes brittle and departs they are dead.

The amount of gas they are blowing and the rate they have to do it at, it could very easily get to that temp.

1 bar per 10 meters they are going down 600m plus and if they are heading up fast and don't won't to surface that's a serious volume of gas to get rid of.

 

[dik]

thanks... I couldn't find a reference to what was being tested.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

To my knowledge sea water can get down to -3 C no lower.

its definitely to do with some operational aspect. Which is why there as been nothing happen or that much fuss about it pulling subs to get them checked.

By the sounds of it pretty much the whole operational sub fleet will be affected by this.

 

[JohnRBaker]

The Navy should be able verify the capabilities of the steel in each sub since I would expect that it's standard practice to keep samples of the steel used just for situations like this. These samples could be tested to verify that it did indeed meet the specifications. Only if these tests shows that there's a problem, would they have to bring the boats in for a check of the actual parts manufactured using this steel.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[waross]

I worked on a project with some refrigeration engineers who often talked about a fish freezing system designed by a friend of theirs.
The system used ambient air as the refrigerant and developed temperatures of minus 100 degrees F.
We were working on a fast freeze tunnel that went down to minus 100 degrees F.
Our system used two Freon stages. The gas for the cold stage was very expensive. A Freon 12 system cooled the condensor of the low temperature stage.
A refrigeration tech crawled through the tunnel at minus 80 deg F to do the final adjustment of the super-heat on the expansion valves.
He wore a LOT of clothes.
Yes, I can accept very low temperatures from expanding air.
Look at it another way: releasing the air from a truck tire on a hot day. The valve stem will often frost up.
That is probably quite a bit below 32 deg F. Scale it up in cold water and the delta T is believable when blowing ballast.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[thebard3]

Submarines have periodically surfaced through the polar ice. I do not know what kind of temperatures you could expect the exposed hull to reach but the ambient temperatures could push this limit. I think the hull is also covered with rubber to reduce sonar signature which would also reduce the exposure to cold.

Brad Waybright

The more you know, the more you know you don't know.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

John they can't its all off loaded onto the supplier. Well it is in the UK.

I have done my twice in a life time crawling around a nuke pressure vessel on a sub doing Rockwell hardness tests to see how the metal is doing at Fastlane. \t0hey were really excited when they found out I actually knew what a rockwell test actually was doing... Normally they used Royal marines who know their way around a 2 stroke marine engine but not much else apart from a sheep's bottom and personal weapon systems.

Navy didn't have a clue or was interested or have the skill set. I just got a huge chunk of cash off BAe for 2 hours work twice.

 

[JohnRBaker]

Speaking of ship disasters, 46 years ago today the Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior, off of Whitefish Point, just North of Paradise, MI:

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

When we were in Michigan this past summer we stopped at the Great Lakes Shipwreck Museum, which is housed in a few of the buildings which used to make up the Whitefish Point Coast Guard station and lighthouse facility:

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

The lighthouse is still in use although it's completely automatic now so there's no longer a full time Coast Guard presence.

While the museum does a good job of covering a lot of the history of the hundreds a shipwrecks which have occurred on the Great Lakes, as you would expect, they have a very large display dedicated to the Edmund Fitzgerald, including models and diagrams:

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

But the centerpiece of their display is the Edmund Fitzgerald's ship's bell, which was recovered from the wreak in 1995:

July 2021 (Sony a6500)

Note that a replica of the original bell, only this one having been inscribed with the names of the 29 men lost when the Edmund Fitzgerald sank, was returned to the shipwreck as a permanent memorial.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[WKTaylor]

Hmmmm… looks like a more mundane/sad 'human factors' answer is being revealed by Naval mishap investigative team...

Navy orders safety stand down after finding sub leaders ‘fell short’ of navigation standards

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/11...b-leaders-fell-short-of-navigation-standards/

"... ...
“We have very rigorous navigation safety procedures and they fell short of what our standard was,” said Houston, referring to the boat’s leadership triad. The incident occurred Oct. 2, and roughly a month later the service announced the commanding officer, executive officer and chief of the boat were all relieved of command.
... …"

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]