Thoughts on General Notes 1

[Struct1206]

I have an architect in my office who continually gripes about us putting "specifications" on our structural drawings. I've worked at several places throughout my career and we've always included a General Notes sheet. I think some people have differing ideas of what is required/what gets included on that sheet but everyone at least includes the IBC required info. I'm curious what other people in the industry do regarding General Notes and if there's any sort of industry standard. Does everyone include a general notes page? What information do you include and what is the rationale behind putting that info on the drawings rather than just including it all in the specs?

 

[KootK]

I had in mind a less capable engineer coming up with a poor design with no one to back-check him. I guess the market would bear that out at some point but hopefully without anyone getting hurt in the process.

I knew what you were getting at Archie. Was just having a little fun with it around the margins. And I agree completely, the benefit to society of weak, irrelevant, uncoordinated specifications is net negative. Even in the scenario that I described, it's my gain weighed against losses for the EOR, contractor, owner, and a society at large that needs its resources deployed wisely. But alas, I wax philosophical yet again...

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[WARose]

My old boss would pride himself on getting a complicated project streamlined enough that it could all be done with the drawings and general notes; no specs. Sometimes I felt he stretched this a little far but we never had any issues that I recall and it was definitely a boon to the contractor.

So many QC issues are addressed in codes (at this point) you can generally cover yourself by just referencing them (and the inspection requirements) in many instances.

 

[hokie66]

I have always used General Notes. The day I started work in a design office, my first task was to hand letter a set of General Notes. Not recommending that now.

One trap is to not make clear in the Contract which takes preference, the Drawings or Specifications, for there will inevitably be conflicts. My choice is Drawings.

 

[KootK]

One trap is to not make clear in the Contract which takes preference, the Drawings or Specifications, for there will inevitably be conflicts. My choice is Drawings.

Interesting. I didn't even know that this was an option. In my region, our insurers teach us that precedence goes: specs --> gen notes --> drawings and details. Like you, I'd really prefer that reversed. Although, I suppose that there's no reason one can't re-specify the order of precedence. It's all just words and decisions after all. People stuff. No laws of nature being violated.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[canwesteng]

IME think drawings always take precedence, although in most cases my specs and notes usually state "unless noted otherwise", implying it might be noted otherwise on the drawings.

 

[jayrod12]

My experience with precedence is the same as Koot's. Our insurer always tells us it goes Specs ---> Notes ---> Drawings.

 

[canwesteng]

Hmmm... what if for example you call out plate as 36ksi on the project but need a piece of 50ksi as part of some assembly and call it out as 50ksi on the drawing? Is the contractor right to provide 36ksi there?

 

[jayrod12]

I think that would be where your "unless noted otherwise" comes into play.

 

[KootK]

Is the contractor right to provide 36ksi there?

Contractually, in my area, yes. Hard to imagine actually getting burned on that though. Agree with UNO.

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Struct1206]

I've always had language in my general notes that says the most stringent requirement governs in cases of a disagreement between the drawings and specs. So, for the given example, the 50 psi spec would take precedence.

 

[hokie66]

In my opinion, that "most stringent requirement" is unfair to the contractor, and may not be enforceable. Why should the contractor be required to rectify a faulty set of documents?

 

[Agent666]

Something like a single bit of plate at a different grade needs to be clearly noted, I tend to place extra emphasis on this on the drawings as experience tells me if they are going to miss something it's going to be this sort of thing.

I tend to think of the notes filling in the gaps in codes and standard specifications. To this end we used to have up to 10 notes sheets covering all sorts of things. Generally with a view to avoidance of past problems by pointing out specific issues and requirements.

Our notes always used to start with 'refer to our specifications for x, Y, z, etc, and these points were wholly covered in the specification. Remainder of notes covered items more specific to interpretation of the drawings and standard detailing requirements, etc. The point is there was a clear indication that the specifications and drawings needed to be read in conjunction with one another.

Also helps to explain this expectation to the contractor so they don't miss things. Everyone wants to review shop drawings for example that are right first time for example and not have to regurgitate every spec clause they should have read. Facilitate them to make your job and the project go much easier.

 

[Ron]

We use both specifications and general notes...the difficulty is checking to see that the general notes don't conflict with the specs!

 

[gtaw]

I enjoy the boiler plate specifications that reference welding standards that have been out of print for more than fifty years or is nonexistance:

"All welds shall be first class workmanship and meet the requirements of the welding and cutting code for buildings."

Best regards - Al

 

[Settingsun]

In my opinion, that "most stringent requirement" is unfair to the contractor, and may not be enforceable. Why should the contractor be required to rectify a faulty set of documents?

Of course, in an ideal world. Safety must however come first in the real world where mistakes are made. It's hardly one-way traffic in terms of cost either. In an ideal world, all contractor mistakes would be fixed but, in the real world, there are non-conformance reports which are generally requests for dispensation that benefit nobody except the contractor.

In my region, our insurers teach us that precedence goes: specs --> gen notes --> drawings and details. Like you, I'd really prefer that reversed.

Seems analogous to the general contract conditions taking precedence over special conditions. Never seen lawyers accept that...

 

[KootK]

I can't really say if the Canadian legal/construction environment is exceptional in this regard. Here's a bit more on how it works here: Link. It's spelled out in the Canadian Construction Documents Committee forms here.

This related thread popped up in my googling: Link

I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.

 

[Tomfh]

what is the rationale behind putting that info on the drawings rather than just including it all in the specs?

If something's on the drawing there's at least some chance someone will read it.

 

[Tomfh]

The general note that cracks me up is the one that says something along the lines of "the contractor shall maintain the structure in a stable condition".

I wonder do surgeons have notes from the head consultant which read "the surgeon shall maintain the patient in an alive condition"

 

[dik]

I often use project notes at the front of structural drawings and they may encompass several sheets; I try to avoid specifications since too often these are lost over the years. My text based drawing notes file is over 400K and growing. Notes are like a short form spec based on 'oversights' over the years.

Dik

 

[cliff234]

We do structural steel connection design for fabricators. One of my “favorite” (i.e., most humorous) general notes was one where the engineer stated, “ONE-SIDED SHEAR CONNECTIONS ARE PROHIBITED, IF POSSIBLE.”