titles 1

[HDS]

Those of you that make hiring decisions what sorts of titles impress you on resumes for engineers?

The way the workplace is headed engineers are doing so many varied functions it is hard to capture their responsibilities with titles. Should it always contain the disciple like Mechanical or Electrical? Do ranks like senior or staff mean anything?

 

[edsongebo]

Dear Grimey...if I search the word 'SEX' thru google or yahoo I would find just about anything from 'Sex in the City' to 'Types of Positions'...LOL!!! but I understand your point. Your resume or business card is what we all want to look like on paper. Some fudge to make themselves look better. It still boils down to the interview. You have to walk the walk if you say you can. I have met many that thought it didn't matter what was on the resume...eventually they were dragged to the carpet by the boss. Forgive me for I've gotten of subject a bit here...

Ed-

 

[oldfieldguy]

I like to think (but then I'm often wrong) that hte title of "engineer" denotes a certain level of competance above that expected from the general population. However, I note that one of my second-tier vendors has what they optimistically term "sales engineers".

I happened to run into one of these on a recent project. I knew him from his previous employement as a technician where he was, to use precise psychological terminalogy, a "Doofus". With his change in employers, a magic wand was waved, and --ting!--, he was a "sales engineer".

In subsequent conversations wherein he tried to obfuscate, flim-flam, snowball and cover up shoddy work by his company, I had a rather irate conversation wherin I opined that if he was an "engineer, then I was the Prince-Consort to the Czarina of all the Russias.

old field guy

 

[edsongebo]

TO ALL:

I started a new thread...I'm curiuos to hear your responses...I know others will be too.

What's important on a resume´...

thread731-173724

 

[wes616]

This thread reminded me of an old aquaintance from college. He had business cards printed that said:

ATTORNEY AT LOVE

and he'd hand them out to girls he met on campus.

Wes C.
------------------------------
No trees were killed in the sending of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

 

[cousink]

By the way, one company I worked for has banned anyone from using the title "Engineer" unless they have passed the PE exam. In some states it is against the law to call yourself an "Engineer" unless you possess the credentials.

 

[edsongebo]

That's interesting to know about states with a specific law. Correct if I am wrong but if someone attends and graduates from a 4 year college with a B.A. in M.E., they should at the least be able to use the title of an engineer. Why would a company NOT want to advertise that they have degreed engineers? Is a P.E. one more step up the ladder or is it a parallel achievement? If it is an achievement what does it bring…money? credibility? fame? Then please explain why ALL engineer’s do not have one?

Edson-

 

[GregLocock]

"Correct if I am wrong but if someone attends and graduates from a 4 year college with a B.A. in M.E., they should at the least be able to use the title of an engineer." No, otherwise someone who has completed their medicine degree should be able to call themselves a doctor.


"Why would a company NOT want to advertise that they have degreed engineers?" Maybe because not all of their engineers have degrees?

"Is a P.E. one more step up the ladder or is it a parallel achievement?" In some fields it is an achievement. In some industries or jurisdictions it is irrelevant, or perhaps, of the same level of achievement as being able to cook a good curry, nice to have, but not a deal breaker. Others will disagree.

"Then please explain why ALL engineer’s do not have one?" In my case, because I can cook a good curry. Having a PE (or its equivalent) would have made no difference, so far as I can tell, to my career. Neither has cooking curry.



Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[HgTX]

I think in MOST (if not merely "many") states it's illegal to use the title "Engineer" for anyone who is not a licensed professional engineer (which generally also requires having an accredited engineering bachelor's degree). Enforcement varies, but the laws are there.

The biggest reasons for engineers not to bother with licensure is the "industrial exemption", which I'll leave for someone else to describe since I'm in a field in which pretty much all of us get licensed.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[cousink]

Well, to be specific, the company I worked for is primarily a civil engineering consulting company HQ'd in Florida. The Board of that company revised the company policy a year or so ago in response to a recently signed state law. Therefore, only licensed engineers working for that company are allowed to refer to themselves as an "Engineer" on their business cards. That applied only to the employees working in Florida, but, as I recall, within a year or so, it was scheduled to be be applied country wide.

 

[HgTX]

Summary of states' regulation of term "engineer" (and other stuff):

http://www.ncees.org/licensure/licensing_requirements_2005/survey_e.pdf#24

There is also faq765-10, "Why should an Engineer become licensed?"

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[Senselessticker]

My current title is "Project Engineer"...translated I think it means: "One who gets yelled at often and is good at tap dancing in meetings in front of clients".

However, I DO NOT consider myself an "Engineer", as I am not licensed....yet...

 

[Ashereng]

A professional engineer is similar to a lawyer that has been called to the bar.

A law student who graduates, usually then articles for a couple of years. Then, they take the bar exam (of whatever state they are in/want to be in). If they pass, then they are considered full fledged lawyers.

An engineering student who graduates, ususally then works (or in the old days, apprentice) for a couple of years. Then, they take the state PE exam (of whatever state they are in/want to be in). If they pass, then they are considered full fledged engineers.

The difference is that the bar association does not let people who are not members of the bar practice.

Somehow, engineering associations let people who are not members practice.

Does this make a good analogy?

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SandCounter]

That is a good analogy Ashereng. I think though that you could take it a step further to explain how engineering associations let people who are not members practice. There are many not-quite-lawyers who practice as paralegals. In the same way, an non-PE almost always has to have his work signed by a PE. Many times, the paralegal and the EIT do a majority of the legwork which is then reviewed, stamped, or presented by the professional.

I have found the title "engineer" to be extremely subjective. I have seen everyone from rodmen with 3rd grade educations to PhD/PE's being called engineers. This law about the title of engineer sounds a little bit strange. I would like to know more about it. If this is true, what are we calling locomotive operators these days?

 

[KENAT]

The rules on PE don't really apply everywhere.

For instance typically in aerospace/defense PE isn't usually required and isn't of as much significance. Of course when you get layed off from a job in an industry that doesn't require PE and start looking somewhere you need one you'll wish you had it.

I was starting to pursue equivalent of PE in UK before I came to US. Now in California I find it's going to be time consuming and expensive to obtain it and in the industry I find myself in not required so, although I may regret it later I'm not actively pursuing it at this time.

 

[Ashereng]

SandCounter,

There are other people who are able to use the title "engineer", in addition to PE/P. Eng:
- locamotive engineers (guy who drives the trains)
- military engineers (at least Canada and US, as long as they are in the military/retired)
- steam/boiler engineers (if they hold a Class 1-4 "steam engineer" ticket)

I may be missing some, but these are some examples.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SmithJ]

I would like to take an opposing view to most on this issue of titles. I have found when reviewing resumes (and also submitting my own resumes) that attention is paid to titles in so far as it tells how one has progressed through a company.

For example, if your resume says that you were a "Project Engineer" for company XYZ in 1995 and you are still a "Project Engineer" for coampany XYZ in 2007, it raises the question of why there has (apparently) been no progression in one's career. Especially if responsibilities have not changed as well. It is then up to the potential candidate to explain and it just throws another curveball in the process.

Personally, I like to ask my boss for periodic reviews on my performance and ask for expanded responsibilities where deserved. I also feel that a corresponding change in title is quite appropriate under these circumstances.

My 2 Cents.

JS.