Train Derailment 3

[dik]

In Washington state, derailment killed 3 people and some still seriously injured. Part of the problem it seems is the design of the rail. From the BBC.

"A US passenger train that derailed, killing three people, was travelling at 80mph (130km/h) on a curve with a speed limit of 30mph, data from the train's rear engine indicates."

The rail was supposed to be a high speed rail and it seems really silly to have a 30mph curve on it.

link:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42408624

Dik

 

[Sawbux]

Some info and tidbits:
The train is a Talgo manufactured train which has been is service for many years by Amtrak. They are rather odd looking, with an engine on both ends, higher than the cars in between. The passenger cars share wheel trucks, single axle between cars.

A train on the alternate, older route alongside Puget Sound suffered a derailment last July. There is a lift bridge on that route and the train failed to stop for a bridge opening. There is an old (1920's or older) vertical lift bridge over Steilacoom creek on the Western track which I suspect was involved (news website didn't say).

The old Western route follows the shore of Puget Sound and enters a long tunnel with a quite tight turn on the West side of Tacoma, under Point Defiance Park. It is a picturesque route, but subject to mud slides from the high bluffs along the Sound.

A lot of construction has been going on over the last couple of years on the new route. The tracks were regraded and reinstalled with new concrete ties. I believe the commuter "Sounder" trains will be sharing this track, but only as far as South Tacoma in the near future - maybe about 5 miles North of the accident site.

The bridge where it happened is the span over Interstate 5 South bound lanes. The East pier used to be a favorite site for the WA State Patrol to hide out and catch speeders on the downgrade. Haven't seen them there lately?

 

[TenPenny]

I think the Talgo sets use a locomotive on one end, the other end is a control car / HEP car, but not a locomotive. In this case, it seems to have been a GE unit pushing the train, but I understand the plan was to use EMD locomotives painted to match.

 

[SwinnyGG]

The locomotive engineer should engage legal counsel as he will probably face manslaughter charges.

The engineer is in a union, and will be represented at no cost of his own.

Train derailments are under the jurisdiction of the NTSB, and get treated in a very similar way as commercial plane accidents... So I'd bet the NTSB/Union reps/Lawyers were on board within about 10 minutes of the accident.

 

[TenPenny]

In a recent 'Railway Age' magazine, I saw an article about how bad Amtrak's safety culture is; it was based on the inquiry into the accident in NJ (I think) where a train hit a work crew. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

“performance-based regulations”

Is that the same logic that decides a stoplight will only be installed after the second child is killed by a speeding motorist, after years of pleading by neighbourhood parents?

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts."

 

[MikeHalloran]

Is that the same logic that decides a stoplight will only be installed after the second child is killed by a speeding motorist, after years of pleading by neighbourhood parents?

No.

Around here, it takes three fatalities to get a stoplight.

Local rules will vary, and will not be recorded in a place where just any citizen has access.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[bimr]

The engineer is in a union, and will be represented at no cost of his own.

Train derailments are under the jurisdiction of the NTSB, and get treated in a very similar way as commercial plane accidents... So I'd bet the NTSB/Union reps/Lawyers were on board within about 10 minutes of the accident.

Not necessarily. The locomotive engineer would have to be in the union and the union contract would have to include liability coverage, both of which are unknown

Here is an example:

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/6609767-74/train-engineer-company

 

[bimr]

Is that the same logic that decides a stoplight will only be installed after the second child is killed by a speeding motorist, after years of pleading by neighbourhood parents?

Perhaps a better terminology would be "Tombstone Engineering".

 

[MatthewDB]

Perhaps a better terminology would be "Tombstone Engineering".

The downside to that is far to often, the wrong thing is done after a death. It's a natural reaction to "we must do something" after someone is killed. Particularly when the dead person is politically connected, or related to someone politically corrected.

A good example is when a pedestrian is killed by someone turning right on a red. We're not going to ban right turns on red, so they will ban it at only that one intersection, even if there is nothing there that makes that one intersection particularly dangerous.

 

[SwinnyGG]

Amtrak's engineers are fully unionized. I expect them to circle the wagons for this guy, whether he deserves their protection or not.

 

[JohnRBaker]

ALL Americans have a right to legal consul, PERIOD! It's NOT an issue of whether he deserves it or not, it's a Constitutional right. As for who provides it, that's totally irrelevant. In fact, if he was not a member of a union and he was being charged with a criminal offense and he was not able to afford his own legal representation, the state would be obligated to provide him consul at no cost to himself.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[TenPenny]

I would hope the union helps ensure he gets treated to the rights he has.

That's kinda the point of a union.

 

[bimr]

Amtrak's engineers are fully unionized. I expect them to circle the wagons for this guy, whether he deserves their protection or not.

Is the following from a similar incident an example of "circle the wagons"?

"The executive director of the Rail Employees Union now says 46-year-old engineer William Rockefeller, who was injured in crash, has said he caught himself "nodding off" at the controls."

http://www.texomashomepage.com/news...-admits-to-nodding-off-before-crash/148211261

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/us/new-york-train-crash/index.html

To surmise that a union will obstruct an investigation seems to be somewhat cynical.

 

[SwinnyGG]

If y'all read my post as implying that the engineer in this accident will unduly avoid any consequences because of his union membership... that's not what I meant.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Late Tuesday, the NTSB said the rail union has been kicked out of its investigation of the derailment for violating confidentiality rules.

Oops...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[SwinnyGG]

Ouch.

 

[bimr]

Happens all the time:

"UPS, union ousted from inquiry into crash of one of carrier service’s cargo planes"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...48790384093_story.html?utm_term=.f2854509e111

All take a vow of silence until the NTSB delivers its final report on the accident. So secret is the process that for some portions of the inquest the partners gather in a secure section of the NTSB building that is equipped with a unique computer system that allows no communication outside the room. Partners at those sessions take notes on color-coded paper that is collected before they leave the room.