Unusual Behavior? 4

[michfan]

OK, I'm on my lunch time so I can post this without feeling like I'm taking away from my work...sorry this is so long.

I've worked at this company for about 4 weeks.

I'm a structural CE, 5 years out of college. I started my own non-engineering business a couple of years ago when I was laid off from a really great engineering job. I've found it necessary to keep a "day job" to pay the bills (3 years for a business to show a profit is not unreasonable...trust me). I went back to work in engineering full-time last Spring. I worked at a small steel fabricator for 3 months doing work that didn't really require any engineering background, coworkers weren't all that welcoming (one of the cad people kept slamming into the back of my chair every time she left the room-she scared me a little) & the business was financially shaky (the bankers kept "visiting" the office) so I kept searching and switched mid-summer to a concrete company. The manager talked me into an estimating position rather than the open engineering position I applied for. I figured it was more money than at the unfriendly financially unstable place so I switched. A little bump in pay, benefits were worse but right now, keeping my business going is my main priority so the cash was more welcome than benefits would have been.

Anyway, long story short, they planned to fire the other estimator once I learned the job. This guy knew everything there was to know about precast - more than I could ever hope to learn. They hired an engineer right after I took the estimating position. When I found out, 3 months after taking the job, that Estimator #1 was getting fired I raised a stink and got myself fired instead. That had been the manager's plan all along - he had it in for Estimator #1 and he acted like Napoleon, firing and hiring whenever he felt like it. Come to find out, it took them over a year to get me in there and right after I got canned, the new engineer quit, too--"conflict with management" was what I heard.

OK, so now I'm at business #3 for the year. Been here a month. Have had absolutely NO training, which I've found is normal, even had to install all the software I need on my own computer. Whatever, I'm smart, I'll figure it all out eventually. Pay is better than the estimating position, so that's a plus. I live in an area with the second worst unemployment rate in the country, so I'm grateful to have work, right?

Well, I was hired in with the expectation that I'll get my PE right away and start stamping stuff. Hmmm... so far, in 4 weeks, the "designer" that sits next to me has made 2 rather large errors on jobs and I've spent my time trying to clean up that mess. The boss, who wanted to pray over hiring me to see if it was the right thing to do, turns out to have a vocabulary of a trucker (no offense to truckers) and just wants the "problems" to go away, which is why he hired me. I don't get to actually check jobs before they go to production...I'm just expected to fix things after the mistakes occur.

The designer next to me has a chip on his shoulder about me being hired - so far I've ignored it but the comments are getting more hostile.

And, he sits and watches DVD's on his second monitor all day, while he designs. He really likes Stargate:Atlantis.

Is it just me, am I finding poor places to work, or is the entire world like this now?

 

[Ashereng]

michfan,

Hmmm. We need someone to handle the problems as they come up - but, they hardly ever (come up)? Hmmm.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

If your boss needed someone to handle the problems, it probably means either there are a lot of problems, or your boss doesn't like dealing with them and is trying to pawn them off on someone else.

Like others said, you should probably look for a better job.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[michfan]

I'm on break again, still not wasting company time...

Well, the "taking care of problems" was supposed to be an occasional thing - my main "job description", if you could call it that, was to come up with connection details and get them engineered/sealed, learn the estimator/designer/detailer jobs so I could handle overflow when needed, and as I understood, to check stuff before it hits the shop.

Silly me, guess I misunderstood.

This was a new position - they hadn't had a structural person working here before. No one has been cataloging details, coordinating things, etc. They don't even have any code books or other reference materials here. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall right now - I have nothing to draw from, I'm seeing even more problems cropping up, and even the problems I've been given to handle aren't really mine to handle - there was another family member, a cousin, doing the RFI's and he seems to want to keep at it, even though I'm supposed to be taking that on. He's either doing things before I get a chance, or he's re-doing them after I do them, and he doesn't leave a paper trail, so I'm asking questions of GC's and being told that they already talked to him.

I submit stuff to the person who currently is sealing the drawings and I get no response - it's been 2 weeks now on some of the stuff I sent in, and when I call and ask about it, I get told they are out of the office or home because of the weather. I'm a pretty forceful person, but I'm tired of getting blown off just because everyone here has accepted that in the past.

Last Friday's crisis was undersized steel on a project - I suggested calling the structural engineer on the job and asking him to re-size his columns and they all looked at me like I was crazy. Guess that was a little too far out of the box, that time.

Day 18 at the new job...OK, tonight I started searching the want ads again...

 

[cousink]

Don't let them kick you out before you've got a place to go...

 

[MedicineEng]

I suggest that you start seeing again (or for the first time)"The Monty Phyton's Flying Circus". Maybe you can join your stargate colleague and see it together.

For what I see, it seems that the owners of your company are quite fans of non-sense.

 

[DanDel]

Hey michfan, reading this thread with interest. Any chance you could expand your own business? Sounds like that might be prudent considering your other options.

 

[plasgears]

MikeH,
From my experience there are more dysfunctional companies out there than functional. This includes all the certified companies, too. Sorry to disallusion the idealists.

 

[michfan]

My first business is a retail store. It has absolutely nothing to do with engineering. I opened it when I was laid off from another engineering job and was burned out from 60 hour weeks. It seemed like a good plan.

Now I work more like 80's. Still burned out, but it's going to pay off. The store is breaking even pretty much, but for now I need a dependable cash flow because the business has seasonal ups and downs.

I do want 3 stores eventually - I'm hoping by the 5-year mark to open 2 more.

 

[l3city]

Hi michfan:
Sometimes, situations and problems in life push so hard as to make you look for other alternatives. At the end you are better-off. I kind'a feel identified (as well as the other fellas) I even have a similar situation as you (see thread731-163669) Our business is going well, and I still work as a designer. We are in the battery business and as well as you, I have plans besides engineering. Sounds hysterical, but sometimes my wife and I talk about having our own factory plant, yes, building, manufacturing and selling batteries. That's in fact one of our next goals. Follow your dreams!
regards

 

[michfan]

l3city,
I know exactly what you mean. I don't regret going to college for engineering (I also have a degree in architecture which I've found not quite so useful...) because so much of what I learned I'm able to use in my everyday life. Yes, I really do use algebra every so often. ;-)

I do wish I'd branched out and taken more business or accounting classes, but I can still do that, as I have time.

There is really no such thing as job security in today's world. My dad spent 35 years working at the same place and he can't understand why I can't just be "happy" somewhere. It's not a question of being happy - I'd be happy driving a lawnmower all day.

It's a question of being proud of what you do, feeling like you've accomplished something at the end of the day, and not stuffing your moral standards under a cushion just to get ahead at your job. Watching my co-worker watch movies all day and not saying anything to him is hard for me. Does he think that is fair to the owner of this company? Does he realize how hard he's made my life, in just a few shorts weeks, with all the mistakes???

I took my 401k and a business loan and worked a full year to start up. We've been open 18 months now, and every month is better than the one before it. I know I'm on the right track. I wish I'd had a partner in the business though - it's hard to find time to do the small things everyday.

Right now it's a struggle to pay all the bills, but I know eventually the loan will be paid off and my customer base will grow and someday there will be profits. That's my job security. Maybe it is a control issue, but I'd rather work my tail off for myself then give 60 hours a week to a company that lays off all it's workers in the end and moves to Texas (that happened to me, too).

Hang in there - everybody needs batteries, just like all kids need clothes (that's my business).

I guess I should just be thankful I have a source of income, however odd this place might be, and take everyone's advice to look for something else in the meantime.

 

[kchayfie]

I know its not easy spending 40 hours a week doing stuff that isn't fulfilling but would it be possible to take your desire for professional pride and job satisfaction and focus all that towards your store? Ignore the day job as just that - a day job. Seeing as your values don't really align with the company's anyway you could maybe even take a leaf out of your co-workers book and do those small things you don't have time for in work hours. That way you can buy more time for yourself to do the accounting and business classes and with luck get to the point where you no longer need the day job that much sooner.

I know this isn't exactly the professional attitude we should display as engineers but from your description of the place you are working, not caring and not trying to improve things might mean you suddenly fit right in!

 

[melone]

Advising someone to do less than their best is an intersting suggestion....

 

[HgTX]

But she's right--if doing your best is banging your head against a wall, what's it really worth? The satisfaction of a job well done only goes so far.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[satchmo]

This reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon where Dilbert gets an assignment from his boss right before lunch that is needed by 1:00. Dilbert realizes that he can either work hard on it and skip lunch, or he can half-ass it and eat on time. The last frame shows him saying "I just traded my work ethic for this banana", and Wally says "I ate that banana years ago".

 

[swall]

I am reminded of a statement I heard from a colleague in manufacturing engineering a while back--"If I wasn't working here, I would just be doing some other sh**ty job."

 

[michfan]

I guess you hit the nail on the head, Swall! If each of my last three jobs have been a nightmare, what good would changing companies do, unless it was to take a higher salary, enabling me to pay off the debts faster and get back to my business full-time all the faster...

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm sure glad to hear I'm not the only engineer out there who feels this way. I thought there was something wrong with me. I'm more normal than I ever imagined! ;-)

 

[Ron]

Michfan....3 years is a long time for a small business to become profitable. Have you considered that perhaps you should decide to go all the way into business or get out?

As for consulting engineering, not all of them are "sit behind a desk and crunch numbers" jobs. I've been a consulting engineer for over 30 years, and while sitting behind a desk and crunching numbers full time does not interest me, the problem solving aspect of consulting engineering does interest me. Some of it is number crunching, some of it is experienced evaluation on the fly, some of it is research, but mostly it is just the application of the engineering thought process and common sense to resolving issues and problems for clients. That can be immensely satisfying....don't rule it out.

 

[plasgears]

Michfan,

I live in mid-Mich, and I like it. My last job lasted long enough to qualify for a small pension. Now I am retired with a side line that brings in some money.

When they ask, I say that I live north of tornado alley, west of megaloposis, clear of the hurricanes, and clear of unbearable summer heat. We have two cold months, two hot months, and the rest is just fine. And the housing is fair priced, taxes a little high, but the living is very agreeable. The people are nice around here, too.

 

[controlnovice]

Michfan,

You could always move to Columbus!

Plenty of work there! Plus, I think you'd get along with the local OSU fans!

______________________________________________________________________________
This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

 

[michfan]

Michigan is a great state, just poorly run at the moment, I'm afraid. Losing thousands of jobs every year, and we are becoming a service state instead of a manufacturing state, which is sad. We were known for cars and furniture.

I, too, love the seasons, love the weather, love being able to drive a short distance to the big lake, etc. I love my house, my yard, my dog and sometimes my cats.

I love my store, even if it is making me gray much too young.

I don't want to move - my family is here, my life is here. I just want to find a place to work where the people around me are friendly and awake enough to do their job. All I've done here so far is fixing mistakes that should have been caught with a checking process, which I'm working to get started, at least. The plant manager told me today that we never do anything right the first time. Now there's confidence!

I've been at this job now less than 2 months (wow, is that all? Feels a lot longer). I've yet to master any of the software and I still can't figure out if there is any rhyme or reason to the job folders, or where they even are kept half the time. Now I just sound like a whiner, don't I?

Mr. DVD-watcher is sitting in Mexico this week, on vacation. So the work has been piling up on my desk, even though I've not really had exposure to most of it since starting. The owner's nephew sent me a nasty email yesterday saying I "bad mouthed" the company to someone (guilty until proven innocent around here, I guess) and I didn't have a clue what he was talking about and told him so. His comment in his email was "I don't even know what the h*** it is you do around here". Well, buddy, neither do I! This is the same guy who came up behind me while I was working and dropped a set of plans from about 3 feet in the air onto my desk, trying to get a reaction out of me, I guess? What a schmuck! That was enough to get me looking at monster.com last night. It's just frustrating when you know there are good companies out there to work for...you just have to keep looking until you find them. I'm really not a good judge during an interview, I'm learning. My first impressions have been dead wrong lately!

Oh, and as to moving to OSU territory, I'd have to get rid of all my U of M sweatshirts then, right???

 

[IRstuff]

Well, you're definitely in a bad place. Nephew is a moron. If he doesn't know, he should ask, and continue asking until he does know.

TTFN