Unusual Behavior? 4

[michfan]

OK, I'm on my lunch time so I can post this without feeling like I'm taking away from my work...sorry this is so long.

I've worked at this company for about 4 weeks.

I'm a structural CE, 5 years out of college. I started my own non-engineering business a couple of years ago when I was laid off from a really great engineering job. I've found it necessary to keep a "day job" to pay the bills (3 years for a business to show a profit is not unreasonable...trust me). I went back to work in engineering full-time last Spring. I worked at a small steel fabricator for 3 months doing work that didn't really require any engineering background, coworkers weren't all that welcoming (one of the cad people kept slamming into the back of my chair every time she left the room-she scared me a little) & the business was financially shaky (the bankers kept "visiting" the office) so I kept searching and switched mid-summer to a concrete company. The manager talked me into an estimating position rather than the open engineering position I applied for. I figured it was more money than at the unfriendly financially unstable place so I switched. A little bump in pay, benefits were worse but right now, keeping my business going is my main priority so the cash was more welcome than benefits would have been.

Anyway, long story short, they planned to fire the other estimator once I learned the job. This guy knew everything there was to know about precast - more than I could ever hope to learn. They hired an engineer right after I took the estimating position. When I found out, 3 months after taking the job, that Estimator #1 was getting fired I raised a stink and got myself fired instead. That had been the manager's plan all along - he had it in for Estimator #1 and he acted like Napoleon, firing and hiring whenever he felt like it. Come to find out, it took them over a year to get me in there and right after I got canned, the new engineer quit, too--"conflict with management" was what I heard.

OK, so now I'm at business #3 for the year. Been here a month. Have had absolutely NO training, which I've found is normal, even had to install all the software I need on my own computer. Whatever, I'm smart, I'll figure it all out eventually. Pay is better than the estimating position, so that's a plus. I live in an area with the second worst unemployment rate in the country, so I'm grateful to have work, right?

Well, I was hired in with the expectation that I'll get my PE right away and start stamping stuff. Hmmm... so far, in 4 weeks, the "designer" that sits next to me has made 2 rather large errors on jobs and I've spent my time trying to clean up that mess. The boss, who wanted to pray over hiring me to see if it was the right thing to do, turns out to have a vocabulary of a trucker (no offense to truckers) and just wants the "problems" to go away, which is why he hired me. I don't get to actually check jobs before they go to production...I'm just expected to fix things after the mistakes occur.

The designer next to me has a chip on his shoulder about me being hired - so far I've ignored it but the comments are getting more hostile.

And, he sits and watches DVD's on his second monitor all day, while he designs. He really likes Stargate:Atlantis.

Is it just me, am I finding poor places to work, or is the entire world like this now?

 

[rbulsara]

No. Just do not join the crappy firms. If your own businees can keep you afloat, either quit this job and look for other. You will find a suitable employer eventually, there are more good firms out there than bad ones.

 

[MadMango]

I don't think there is anything especialy strange about the people or places you have encountered so far. Just know there are much better situations and companies out there to be found.

I work in manufacturing, and this type of work has its own strange quirks, but every industry does. I would talk to your boss, tell him the advantages of finding errors and mistakes before they happen. I think he should be open to the idea, and you can check the designer's work. The designer should embrace the idea of having a second pair of eyes on his work. If he doesn't, he'll become unhappy and probably find a different job. All the better for you and your company.

[green]"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."[/green]

Have you read faq731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[michfan]

If my own business could support me, it would, but it is breaking even and paying the wages of the people that work there...not enough for me. Opening the business cost a whole lot more than I expected and I'll be working both jobs for a couple of years to pay that debt off.

Unemployment in this tri-county area is 2nd highest in the nation...during 2004/2005 there were NO structural positions posted in the local paper...and they are few and far between now, which is why I jumped at the estimating job (turns out I love estimating & would gladly go back to it).

My friend the Designer has no intentions of quitting. He has no college background (which he lets me know about once a day with his comments to others) and he has it made. Stargate must be over because now he's watching some other movie. Why would he leave when there are few prospects out there for any of us, let alone someone without a degree?

My boss is interesting...he's working on his next great idea to patent. He keeps straightening the piles of papers on my desk. That drives me nuts. He'll ask me something and when I answer he'll say, "no, it's this..." Yesterday he asked a question about something I was working on and when I said it was failing because of screw pullout and he said, "no, because of bending..." He hadn't even looked at what I was working on! He's not an engineer but hey, he owns the company, so he must be right???

I'm going over some connection details from an outside engineering firm and I'm finding what I'd call outright mistakes on the work- did no one ever look over anything here, or do they just stamp it as received and pass it on?

I need the paycheck right now so I'm keeping quiet but I can't quite see myself staying here long enough to start sealing anything.

 

[GrimesFrank]

Thanks michfan,

I was feeling disgruntled with my job today but after your tale I feel much better.

Take solace in the fact you are improving the lives of your fellow engineers.

The best of luck to you.

Frank "Grimey" Grimes

 

[dik]

as they say... born naked, wet and cold... and it gets worse!

Dik

 

[michfan]

Geez, Grimey - I'm so glad I could help improve your day! We got paid today so I'll be back again Monday. ;-)

 

[atlas06]

Why on earth would anyone live in a place that has the worst unemployment in the nation?
Can't you just go to a place where there is demand for structural engineers?

 

[michfan]

Well, Atlas06, I did consider relocation. I also considered a long commute (2-3 hours wouldn't have been out of the question) but I'm a little tied to my business right now, so moving really wasn't an option. And hey, I'm obviously smart because I have no trouble landing the job...heh heh. Just keeping my mouth shut to keep the job is what I find hard! That was my first firing, by the way.

But as you can see from my handle, I'm a true fan of Michigan. I love this state. We have all four seasons, usually, and it's a beautiful place to live. That, and I could never sell my house because right now it's gutted down to the studs. I'm only about half done renovating it so it really isn't sellable in the current state. And, there are houses in my town that have been for sale since I moved in, almost four years ago. This area of Michigan has really had a tough time with manufacturing closings. We've literally lost thousands of jobs here. The company I worked for with 1500+ employees, the job I loved, closed up and moved south this past fall, and that was a world-known company. Times are rough here but they'll get better. I'm an optimist, I guess.

It's true, though--I've always leaned toward manufacturing for jobs. I just don't think I could work in the consulting world. I'm not someone who can sit at a desk all day, crunching numbers. With all my jobs there's been a huge variety of work, travel, problem-solving, project management, etc. I'm used to wearing many hats - when I have to sit and do just one task over and over I start to think I'll go out of my mind! So is it just structural jobs in manufacturing that are so loopy or do you all find consulting to be just as much? How do I tell that the place is not quite right during the interview? I pretty much got the offer at the end of my interview for this job, and my new boss told me to write down on an application how much money I needed. Should that have tipped me off??? There was no formal offer - it's a small family-run company. Are my experiences extremely abnormal, or has anyone else jumped jobs like this? Should I offer my DVD collection to Mr. Designer, try to befriend him? I get the impression he's a little threatened by me - is there a way to let him know I don't want his job?

 

[DonPE]

Michfan:
You described my last engineering job completely, and until I read that you are in Michigan, I actually thought you may have worked in that same small dysfunctional-family run company in Connecticut (including the getting bumped on the back of the chair when people walked by). You won't change the people by being kind to them; Mr. Designer is probably jealous of you. Just for fun, you may want to bring in a framed copy of your diploma and/or copy of your PE license to hang in your cubicle. But don't be surprised if it "accidently" falls. Quietly look for another job and get out of there as soon as you can.
After my experiences, I got out of manufacturing altogether and am now in construction. So far, the people are much more normal.
Good luck to you!

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'm willing to accept the assertion that the number of functional companies exceeds the number of dysfunctional companies. I have no factual basis to support the assertion, but its converse is too depressing to consider.

Answer this: If you found a good job in a company that was stable, and had a boss who wasn't a nut case, would you leave? Of course not. Nobody else would either. You have to wait for someone to die or retire.

The vast majority of jobs that are available, are available precisely because they are 'broken' in some way:
- Company doomed.
- Boss crazy.
- Boss, or company, unethical.
- Co-workers crazy, homicidal, dishonest.

Your employer is blessed with all of the above, in various proportions.

There is no percentage in telling the boss how to do things better. He is already doing them perfectly, from his perspective. I almost said, "Just ask him", but on reflection I don't think that's a good idea, either.

Find another job, then quit.

Keep your eye on the obits. ;-)



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[boffintech]

You say you are a structural. You say there are no structural jobs in your area.

Confucius say, "There is great adventure in moving."

 

[DaveVikingPE]

" framed copy of your... your PE license to hang in your cubicle"

Do this anyway. It's professional.

 

[ExRanger]

You have to watch out in these smaller companies.

My experience - I worked in a small firm just starting out with 8 people. The boss was crazy, scatter-brained, and highly distrustful of people. Guess what, the entire business and everyone in it reflected those traits.

Things were disorganized and panic was the typical order of the day. The other workers started to mimic the boss in his every mannerism and personality trait. When something went wrong it was not a matter of fixing it and moving on, it was a matter of finding out who to punish. Everybody talked about everybody else behind their backs.

After one year I high-tailed it out of there. Now I know just how important it is to analyze the man or woman in charge of a place before you decide to work there. You've got to be able to look past the marketing job they will do to get you on board.

 

[DaveVikingPE]

What is up with these managers/bosses and everyon else who somehow forgot basic decency, politeness and manners?

 

[MikeHalloran]

They didn't forget; they never had manners, etc.

A lot of small businesses exist because the owner can't stand working for someone else ... or no one will tolerate him as an employee.

The revelation above occurred to me while representing an owner at an industrial condominium association meeting.

Picture 300 Emperors squabbling, over everything, and nothing.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[RossABQ]

I have found that the underlying issue that makes a place good to work at or not is whether the people there feel secure in their employment. If they are secure, there is minimal back-stabbing or personal conflicts, people take advice or criticism well, they accept changes like a new guy. Once they start to feel insecure (like when a project starts to wind down, or the economy sucks), you start to see signs of friction and petty conflicts. Obviously, Michigan manufacturing is not the secure place it historically has been. There are many types of structural engineering jobs that do not involve "sitting behind a desk" all day (maybe if you worked outside in winter in Mich. for a while, that wouldn't seem so bad anyway!). Look elsewhere!

 

[MedicineEng]

Did you ever show to your boss how much money did he save because you detected the errors before they went to the workshop into production scale?
Every boss likes more $$$ than anything else.
Show him the money and he will like you.

 

[michfan]

Well, as I said, I've only been here a month. Not enough time to prove anything yet. I'm still trying to teach myself the software!

I just think, that after the first month, I can see how things are going to go here. At my interview, when he mentioned he was looking for someone to handle "problems" as they came up, I asked how often they had problems. "Oh, hardly ever" was the answer. Should I have asked for proof of that??? Because if I'd known, I'd definitely have asked for a higher salary!

I also see a clear lack of common sense, but I've seen that at every place I've worked, to some degree. Here it is just really extreme. I've been given some design software to use, but it's really limited. My boss wants me to be able to do FEA on some components, so I explained that the software he has really won't do that - his answer, "Call the college that I bought it from and tell them to make it work." Um, yeah, I'll get right on that...let me just dial them up. Then his dad, part owner of the company, says to me, "you need to starting thinking outside of the box". ??? I don't even begin to know what to say to something like that.

I hate to jump ship so fast - I don't want my resume' looking like swiss cheese, so how do I explain 3 jobs in a year at the next interview?

 

[jmw]

Write it up as a TV script.... it'd be better than "The Office" and you can have a separate income.

Seriously, I think you can always gain the sympathy of an interviewer when explaining this type of company and why you left so quick but I would suggest you get your CV/Resume out there again pretty quick because this sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

There is no law that says that because you made the mistake of joining this company that you should compound the mistake by staying with them.

You might also want to consider what would happen if a mistake gets out into the real world: who will they make the scapegoat? Dad? the Son? the Stargate fan (in a high unemployment area, this guy must know where the bodies are buried).



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com