Valve spring oil cooler?

[jean genibrel]

I would like to know if anyone out there knows how to plumb a valve spring oil cooler.
Are they gravity activated, do they need a pump like for gearboxes and diffs?

Thank you

 

[BrianPetersen]

Explain to the rest of us, what this is for.

No engine that I have ever had anything to do with, has such a thing, or even a possibility of such a thing.

 

[jean genibrel]

I am stumped also. Earl's Mocal and SETRAB all seel "valve spring oil coolers". Comp did not have an answer either. I have been in racing and performance for over 40 years and I too have never heard of such a thing. The idea may not be so bad when one considers that the valve springs on a race engine can get red hot and they eventually will need replacing. I would guess that when the springs get super hot they lose some of their tension and can cause power loss. There, it seems that cooler oil would be beneficial for performance and longevity.

 

[BrianPetersen]

What engine is this for?

 

[TugboatEng]

Try "Valve Spring Oiler" for more information. It's additional oil flow directed at the springs for cooling in engines that operate at extended high speed.

 

[jean genibrel]

To Brian Peterson

Any endurance race engine.

 

[Lou Scannon]

I'd be interested to see any kind of conventional valve spring functioning as intended while at a "red hot" temperature.
That said, I'm sure a little bit of extra cooling wouldn't go amiss for a highly stressed valve spring operating near its limit for an extended period.
Whether or not the power cost of pumping extra oil flow and increased heat rejection allows a net gain in whatever limiting factor you are trying to address needs to be assessed at the system level.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz

 

[RodRico]

I was going to mention that Mopar and KE Performance sell valve covers (or devices that sit under the cover) with integrated valve spring oilers that direct a spray onto each individual spring. I didn't because a spray device like that needs pressure, and folks should be very careful about tapping into the oil pressure of their engines unless they know what they're doing (and someone asking how to plumb one probably doesn't).

These guys have a 3D model and images of the "spray" (really more of a jet):

http://www.hardin-marine.com/p-12519-bb-chevy-valve-spring-oiling-system.aspx

 

[BrianPetersen]

"Any endurance race engine"

To me, an endurance race engine is a DOHC 4 cylinder 16 valve with direct valve actuation via buckets that also serve as cam followers, with pressure lubrication supplied to the cam bearings which then splashes out in ample supply to the cam lobes and which also thoroughly soaks and rinses the entire valvetrain in oil.

Not all valvetrain designs are starved for top end oil supply. Or cooling.

So... what engine is this for.

I suspect the real issue is that the top end is short on oil for lubrication, and the cooling is secondary. If the engine is also short on cooling, any cooler in the oil circuit anywhere (e.g. in a supplementary feed to the top end) should help...and it's just an oil cooler, nothing special.

 

[TugboatEng]

Think about a pushrod v8 in a high performance marine application. The type that are running 3/4" lift at 5000-6000 rpm for tens of minutes at a time. NASCAR would be a an even better candidate. Both of these are going to be dry sump engines with multi-stage pumps that can dedicate a state to bearing lube, piston cooling, valve spring cooling, etc...

However, OP, there is no performance benefits to valve spring cooling. The extra oil flow required is actually a parasitic loss. You should only consider this if you're experiencing valve spring failures.

 

[enginesrus]

So you want more oil around the valve springs? Many ways to accomplish that. But you also need real good seals for the valve guides. I got some ideas but I need a small fortune to patent them before disclosing that info.
Tugboat is correct.
And if you are having spring failures it maybe either the materials or cam profile, as well as other parts of the valve train causing it, extra cooling may do nothing to fix the problem.

 

[TugboatEng]

It's not about pooling, these systems use nozzles to spray the spring. You need flow to remove heat.

 

[RodRico]

I got some ideas but I need a small fortune to patent them before disclosing that info

I just filed a provisional as a micro-entity on my injection system for $75. I have to file a regular utility patent within a year which costs $755 insofar as there are 3 or less independent claims and 20 or less total claims and I don't have too much back and forth with the examiner. The hardest part is getting registered so you can file electronically. The costs go up after you have filed four patents as you're no longer a micro-entity.

 

[mc5w]

I know that back in the 1970s there was a better designed 3rd party oil cooler for Volkswagen Beetles that would replace the stock oil cooler. It had a flange that bolted in place of the OEM oil cooler and 2 hoses that would go to a fin and tube heat exchanger that mounted in front of the cooling blower intake. It also had a means to hook up a real oil filter of the type that Ford used back then. According to How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive the stock oil cooler had a tendency to act as a trap for metal particles and when doing an overhaul you had to clean that out. The what was originally an aircraft engine was much more dependent on oil as a coolant than say a lawnmower or motorcycle engine.

We were taught that part of what engine oil does is to cool at least some of the engine parts.

 

[jean genibrel]

My query waS about VALVE SPRING OIL COOLERS. They are not for any specific engine or application like marine, aircraft racing, or other.

The manufacturers could not answer my question which makes no sense since they list valve spring oil coolers on their data.

Thanks for your responses, but let's let this one go. You can see "Valve Spring Oil Coolers" here:

http://www.setrabusa.com/products/oilcoolers/powersteering/index.html

 

[TugboatEng]

If you wanted a better answer, why did you withhold that piece of information?

If you look at high performance high endurance engines they often have staged oil pumps. They may have 5 or 6 oil pumps all driven along one shaft. One or more for scavenging, one for bearing lube, one for piston cooling, etc...

In such a case, the top end oiling can be independent from the rest of the engine. The drain back holes in the head would need to be plugged. With a closed loop oiling system for the top end you would now need a "valve spring oil cooler".

 

[jean genibrel]

You are speaking of dry sump systems as used on most if not all endurance racing engines.
I was inquiring about "valve spring" oil Coolers"
PS: What information did I withhold?If you wanted a better answer, why did you withhold that piece of information?

 

[3DDave]

If I had carefully read the original post I'd have asked - how do you think oil will be forced through a radiator/heat exchanger? Pretty obvious that it will require a pump. And I think that's what was misleading - no one could match the idea that that isn't obvious a pump is required to the question as asked.

 

[TugboatEng]

I used a picture of a dry sump pump because it shows an example of a pump with multiple pumping circuits. In your case, one would be dedicated to the valve spring cooling circuit.

 

[enginesrus]

So a quick search brought up nothing about valve spring coolers. I guess it would be too difficult to get small air conditioning units under a valve cover. Maybe hollow spring rod and run coolant through them?
How about just going with air springs?