where is engineering going ? 8

[rb1957]

not very far if this note from online university course (structures analysis) material is true ...

"obtaining this relation requires energy methods, which is graduate material"

which is sad since energy methods aren't so difficult to grasp, and also because the undergraduates are being told "take this on faith ... you're too dumb to understand it". ok, my ad lib ... maybe they're being told "take this on faith, 'cause we don't have time to show you the details".

I get the problem ... the syllabus is so broad now that they can only go an inch deep, and graduate degree allows them to delve into details of a few topics. But the problem I see is that students and graduates aren't given the tools to derive things for themselves, they're restricted to looking things up (in wiki) and taking a lot of things "on faith". Worse is that this mindset is placed in them where they should be learning how to prove things for themselves, at the foundation of their career house ... bad foundation = bad house.



another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[KENAT]

"Infernal strain energy" - so not your favorite technique then rb1957?

I made my corrections above.:-(

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[canwesteng]

Interesting. The next nearest university to me was more than an England length away,and the next nearest I would have wanted to go to would been just over UK length away. Narrows down the options quite a bit.

 

[GregLocock]

I think a lot changed in two decades!

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[KENAT]

That's about what I guessed but didn't want to imply anything on your vintage.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[SAITAETGrad]

Energy methods...did that in my three year diploma in 2002.

How many undergraduate programs have a big focus on structures? Aerospace, civil & mechanical all include structures but how many students choose the upper class electives? Why surprised that a lot of schools just defer to graduate studies?

 

[GregLocock]

Not too sure what you are getting at there. As a mechanical engineer I did a couple of papers in my final year in structures, in fact my final year project was on some exceedingly dull aspect of stiffness of trusses as they approached yield (that was the fun bit in the lab, breaking stuff).

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[FeX32]

This is a touchy subject.
Many universities have revised slightly the curriculum in a way that tries to incorporate some practical sense while still maintaining mathematical rigor.
I'm surprised at the "energy methods only for graduate school"...
This is a simple and easy to use method for classical mechanics.
During my PhD I never used this...
What mattered most was my understanding of the fundamentals with advanced math as well as advanced programming.
I won't get into the other details...

What I can say though is that this is irrelevant all together to any practical engineering perspective. An engineer that for some reason never used a particular method is not a sub-par engineer. If he is a good engineer he can learn this in 2 hours and determine if it is applicable or not to what the goal he is working towards..

 

[snarkysparky]

My opinion of mathematical training is that it helps structure your though processes. Knowing what integration and differentiation is changes how you intuitively think about problems. In my view it is a mistake to assume a mathematical topic is without merit just because you never directly apply it in your work.

Engineers need more math. Industry needs more technicians.

A lot of work done by engineers is really technician work and business would profit in my view from structuring work so that the complex decisions and designs go to engineering and the majority goes to technician level workers.

When I started working around the early nineties I was dismayed at the mindless simple stuff I was assigned. I constantly thought they don't need an engineer to do this stuff. Industry has since moved to a more technician solution and this is best for economic efficiency sake. Needs to move more this way though.

 

[rb1957]

I agree with that, from a large company perspective. When I was hiring the push was to get the brightest and best, but my opinion was that they'd get bored pretty quickly with what we have to offer. Instead of "type A, future leaders" I wanted to get "good team-players, followers (but not sheep)".

But in a smaller company there's less support and you need to respond to a multitude of issues.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[cranky108]

The decision to hire more engineers or technicians is usually not an engineering decision. It is a decision for the MBA's and other business people, who have no idea what it takes to do the job at hand.

So you have a few engineers who do the work, and a dozen who think they can do it.

University is only the start of an engineers training, and needs to be broad to give the skills for the next step.

School is intended to give you the ability to think, however some never seem to be able to think outside the book.

 

[rb1957]

many don't (apparently) open book

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[Belgiancadengineer]

Many things are intended to do many things....but everyone always has their own agendas.

 

[cranky108]

My agenda no longer includes saving the world. It's more about obtaining a paycheck.
It's not that I don't care as much as I did in the past. It's that I am tired of correcting other peoples problems, and getting no respect for it.

I mean that's it, if you entertain people, you get respect, and more pay. If you provide someone with the basics, food, energy, housing, safety, etc. you get paid less, and are not respected.

 

[KENAT]

So cranky108, when will you be appearing on "America's Got Talent" then?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[cranky108]

I don't think engineering is thought of as much of a talent. Besides I think people would more likely pay me to not sing.

 

[rb1957]

of course it isn't ... not even on BBT !

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[Panther140]

These are government-subsidized organizations. They will do whatever they can to ensure that everybody who goes to those organizations is capable of producing good results, but not capable of critical thinking or questioning what they're told.

Moreso, they do not want dissenters to be able to have a degree or credentials that would allow them to gain influence of organizations peppered throughout society. It is not about molding you as much as it is making sure that you aren't a dissenter or free thinker.

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin

 

[DSB123]

All of these discussions about which Uni is better is all academic. Just look around you and probably the better paid individuals never went to Uni and do not understand Engineering. These are the guys who were "dumped" in the Projects section. Over the years they have built their own reputations on the back of Qualified Engineers working on successful Projects and getting their jobnames as Project Engineers then Project Managers and maybe to the heady position of Project Directors. All the time just pushing paper around and calling meetings at which they allocate tasks to the Qualified Engineers. So basically what's the point of working towards getting a degree or higher qualification or even Chartered status when you will not be on the same salary as one of these un-qualified individuals who perhaps have an ONC or HNC ?

 

[KENAT]

Then again DSB123 there are the folks with HNC/HND/Apprenticeships who've been working hard for all their career doing Engineering tasks including full on stress analysis of aerospace equipment etc. who get to have some new Grad, or an at least one instance I saw Chartered Engineer that didn't have a clue come in and give them bad directions, take all the credit, use & abuse them...

What's you'r point DSB123?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[cranky108]

So what is your goal? Is it money, or fame? To do something meaningful?

If you wanted fame, you might consider a different profession. Know any good jokes?