where is engineering going ? 8

[rb1957]

not very far if this note from online university course (structures analysis) material is true ...

"obtaining this relation requires energy methods, which is graduate material"

which is sad since energy methods aren't so difficult to grasp, and also because the undergraduates are being told "take this on faith ... you're too dumb to understand it". ok, my ad lib ... maybe they're being told "take this on faith, 'cause we don't have time to show you the details".

I get the problem ... the syllabus is so broad now that they can only go an inch deep, and graduate degree allows them to delve into details of a few topics. But the problem I see is that students and graduates aren't given the tools to derive things for themselves, they're restricted to looking things up (in wiki) and taking a lot of things "on faith". Worse is that this mindset is placed in them where they should be learning how to prove things for themselves, at the foundation of their career house ... bad foundation = bad house.



another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[rb1957]

I had the same argument with my son ... "Steve Jobs didn't graduate uni,and look where he went" ... retort "so you think you're Steve Jobs, or like Steve Jobs ... good effing grief ... the only way you're like Steve Jobs (said some years back now) is that you both take in O2 and expel CO2".

and I second cranky ... what do you want out of life ? ... money and fame ... then probably don't do Engineering (sure some make it, but they're the "Steve Jobs" exceptional people).

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[DSB123]

KENAT,
My point is don't bother with Degrees/Masters/PhD's/Chartership and all the study that takes when you can get a better job by being a "numptie" so long as you read and practice Billy Bagshot's "Book of Brilliant Bullshit" or his sequel "Bullshit Baffles Brains". This is all you really need to achieve a good salary and an easy job!

 

[GregLocock]

There's something a little bit off there but I can't quite put my finger on it. Oh yes, there it is. Some of us don't want to be highly paid (probably not) bullshit artists. Yes, that's it.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[davefitz]

As I recall , Steve J. had a serious personality disorder, and died young from a cancer that could have been cured if he had a "normal " personality and accepted prudent medical recommendations. It is not clear why anyone would want to emulate Steve J.

"In this bright future, you can't forget your past..." Bob Marley

 

[IRstuff]

More importantly, it's not at all clear whether those go hand in hand, i.e., would there have been a Jobs without the bad?

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[HamburgerHelper]

Steve J. is one of those guys that the more you read about him, the more it perplexes you why anyone let him be the head of anything.

 

[rb1957]

but he did.

and in any case, he was only an example (I could have easily used his mate Bill). The point being sure there are exceptional people that have been "successful" without much formal training, but most of us aren't exceptional.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[HamburgerHelper]

rb1957,

Programming itself is very different in my opinion than engineering in that it can be self taught and is very dependent on the aptitude of the coder. Anyone with aptitude can bootstrap themselves if they have the discipline and can find job to get their foot in the door. How many people really have that much discipline?

 

[rb1957]

I think Steve did much more than just "programming" ... sure he did some (I think maybe Woz did more) but he had the vision of where computers could go, and the drive to get there.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[IRstuff]

I think it's pretty clear that Jobs had a very specific and unique vision of what computers and portable devices could and had to be. It was his vision that put Apple where it is today, and why the board let him back in.

It's unclear how long he could have maintained that unique vision. There are others in history that did something similar, but couldn't keep it up or couldn't adapt fast enough. There was a shining instant in time when EVERY "secretary" had to know how to use a "Wang." And yet, that company is now no more than a brief footnote in history, because they were unable to adapt to the flood of PCs and compatibles that grossly undercut the Wang word processor, and the plethora of PC word processing software that quickly came into existence.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[JNieman]

There was a shining instant in time when EVERY "secretary" had to know how to use a "Wang."

I don't think I've ever been more careful about how I phrased a google search.

 

[KENAT]

DSB123 if your complaint is about your typical weasely bull**** artist then make that point.

No need to denigrate people with qualifications other than the now typical university route.

From my recent experience, many, perhaps even most of those numpties actually appear to have phd's.

Not a universal dig at phd's - I work(ed) with some really good ones too, just like I've worked with some who came the apprentice route and probably fell into the numptie categorization.

The correlation between being a numptie and education level is not clear from my experience, but then that's anecdotal not true data driven.

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[SLTA]

Both my parents had PhDs in physics. Both my parents were (are) brilliant, and very mechanically adept. Daddy also collected and restored antique tractors. He was always looking to see the wisdom in everyone - from the 3rd-grade-educated farmer to the Nobel-prize-winning physicist. Just because one or two people have great luck at something doesn't mean others will - we all have to follow our own paths. Mine included studying LOTS, both in school and afterwards.

(and what in tarnation is a numptie?)

Please remember: we're not all guys!

 

[moon161]

Some of the critique of orange hitler's followers, (by queen of the status quo's followere) is that they are poor and uneducated, as if that's a moral failing in a country where access to education and productive labor is decreasing, and has done so under team red and team blue for the last 30-40 years.

As a contract worker, I've been around quite a bit. Some of the best of my varied experiences in engineering have been working with people that had an agricultural background in some way.

 

[truckandbus]

moom161, my first Chief Engineer made it a policy to hire engineers who had farming backgrounds regardless of discipline (mechanical or electrical) and he created a very successful team.

I think for research positions, those with book learning may work out better but if you really want to 'make' stuff a person with a practical background can drive better results

 

[cyt4]

Well, there are couple of issues in the industry. No one really sees any point in energy methods in the industry as it would take a lot more time to implement than a FEM model(most probably). It is nice to have the elastic foundation, energy methods, beam columns etc in your arsenal but in the end you really don't use them on a day to day basis. FEM actually bridged that gap. I learned about energy methods virtual work etc in my college days but I've never used them. I would have very much preferred an in depth discussion about FEM, element formulations and not those useless direct stiffness matrices that you can solve by hand.
It is the same story about beam columns. You wouldnt solve complex, tapered section beam column problems with numerical hand methods.(you can but it would take a lot of time) It is nice to do it once or twice but in the end what you are after is an engineering approximation. As one of my mentors(40+ year veteran) told me, engineers try to approximate the nature with their tools. So I dont see any problems with using newer and better tools and not using outdated ones.

 

[rb1957]

For me a problem with FEMing everything is that you lose touch with the analysis, and become a model-maker.

Another problem is book-keeping ... keeping these models and runs and filed ...

I'm quite happy to solve a single redundancy by hand.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?

 

[BUGGAR]

If I had it to do over, I think I would have done it this way:

"I know a guy who worked his way up from sweeping floors in the machine shop to designing machinery. He was one of our best engineers but had only a high school diploma.

He got from sweeping to machining by offering to help. First he was dressing keys, then he was keeping an eye on the CNC lathe, until he was doing it all.

He got from master machinist to designer by learning the CAD software and reading a chapter of Machinery's Handbook every morning. MH is dense but there is a great deal of mechanical engineering coursework represented in there. While this was nowhere near as broad as a BSME, it served him well. I'm sure if MH does not track your interest in mechanical engineering, there are other reference books that do."

 

[IRstuff]

I've attempted to hire people like that, and that pesky lack of BS often gets in the way. So, even if you were able to get a job, you'd likely be stuck in it and find it difficult to move around.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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