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Why Did Ford Decide to do a Flat-Plane Crank Differently? 1

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JCReynolds79

Automotive
Sep 6, 2007
115
Most V8 engine layouts are Cross-Plane (sometimes called Cruciform) due to the 4 common crank pins being positioned in two planes, 90 degrees apart. Usually the two end pins are in one plane, 180 degrees apart and the two inner pins are on a plane perpendicular to the outer’s. Figure 1 shows a typical V8 cross-plane crankshaft.

Crossplane-crank_amqa88.jpg

## Figure 1 - V8 Crossplane Crankshaft ##

Flat-Plane V8s are commonly only used in high-performance engines, such as the likes of Ferrari. As its name suggests, a Flat plane V8 crankshaft has all its crank pins in a single plane. It looks very similar to an Inline-4 crankshaft, albeit with longer crank pins to accommodate two big ends. Figure 2 shows a typical Flat Plane V8 crankshaft.

Flat-plane-crank_uhgwgv.jpg

## Figure 2 - V8 Flat-Plane Crankshaft ##

There are two main benefits of a Flat-Plane:

[ol 1]
[li]Due to good inherent primary (1st order) balance (no primary shaking forces or couples) there is no requirement for large counterweights (a cross-plane has a rotating primary couple that must be balanced out with counterweights - hence the typical shape of the large end counterweights on cross-plane V8 cranks). This means reduced weight, reduced inertia, reduced package volume, which all equal increased engine acceleration and lower CoG possible.

[/li]
[li]Exhaust Pulse Tuning - due to the layout, firing order is alternating from bank to bank, so each bank sees equally spaced pulses of exhaust gas pressure. This means exhaust tuning can be utilised to make the engine perform better. The cross-plane layout means each bank has unequal pulse distribution.[/li]
[/ol]


So the question I am puzzling over, why did Ford decide to make use of a flat-plane crank layout in the new 2016 Mustang GT350R but (seemingly) throw away all the benefits gained by doing it differently?

2016-Ford-Shelby-GT350-Flat-Plane-Crank_jit9pq.jpg

## Figure 3 - Ford GT350R V8 Flat-Plane Crankshaft ##

I’ll explain “differently”. The GT350R crankshaft is shown above in figure 3. The very first thing I noticed was that is had an “up - down - up - down” configuration of the crank pins instead of the usual “up - down - down - up” layout as illustrated in Figure 2. Straight away I wondered why they had done that as I suspected (before I had a chance to do any calcs) that it was going to introduce some imbalance. This suspicion was further strengthened by the obvious larger counterweights, opposing each other at either end of the crankshaft, giving away that there was some inherent unbalanced (primary) couple.

So I did some calcs and confirmed that the unusual layout of this flat-plane V8 crankshaft did indeed have some unbalance.

The typical U - D - D - U layout leaves only an unbalance secondary, horizontal shaking force and a relatively small secondary couple in the vertical plane, all due to the reciprocating components.

The U - D - U - D layout however, even just looking at the rotating masses alone, has a primary rotating couple. So before even considering the reciprocating masses you have to add 2 large, opposing counterweights at either end of the crank to just make the crank balance. Then when you consider the reciprocating masses, you get the same secondary imbalances as the U - D - D - U but also more primary couple imbalance.

Then end result is a flat-plane crankshaft with the mass/inertia penalty of the cross-plane crankshaft. So why did they do it?

That is actually my unanswered question...unless I haven’t considered some other great benefit, I can’t see why they did it...apart from perhaps, marketing? Maybe being able to say the GT350R is different from all the rest because it has an exotic “5.2l V8 with flat-plane crank” (quoted from the Ford website).

I would really like to know more behind the decision.

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
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p.s., why are my images not showing in the post?

edit: Sorted now.

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
Sorry, is there really what, IRstuff?

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
What's the firing order on those engines?

In each bank, it could be 1-2-3-4 or it could have 1 and 3 swapped (3-2-1-4 i.e. 1-4-3-2 which is the exact same scenario flipped end to end) or it could have 2 and 4 swapped (1-4-3-2 which is equivalent) or it could have both swapped (3-4-1-2 which is 1-2-3-4). Interesting. Either way, each bank fires each cylinder in sequence from one end of the engine to the other evenly spaced, it's only a matter of whether that sequence goes front-to-back or back-to-front. (I know that's not the actual way the cylinders are numbered, we're just looking at each bank - bear with me.)

The other bank - let's suppose this is the one that trails by 90 degrees - either has its own firing order inserted 90 degrees after, which would put both power strokes on the same crank pin at the same time, or 450 degrees after, which completely separates the firings on each crankpin. I'd say that's more likely.

The first cylinder of the second bank in the firing sequence fires 90 degrees following the third cylinder in the first bank in the firing sequence in a nice progression from either back-to-front or front-to-back. The firings are nicely spaced between the front half of the engine and the back half of the engine and so are the intake suction strokes and there's never an overlapping power stroke on the same crank pin. (I don't think it is possible to achieve this with a cruciform crossplane-crank V8) Heck, the compression stroke on the second cylinder in the bank doesn't start until the first cylinder's power stroke is mostly finished.

I think Ford knew what they were doing.
 
There could be other reasons.
WAG1: Maybe their crank grinder automation deals with UDUD better than UDDU.
WAG2: Maybe it's used in a vehicle where you have to rotate the crank in increments in order to remove the oil pan axially, and two throws in a row wouldn't clear the rear seal face of the pan.

Example: The penultimate E-series van, where you had to remove the top half of the intake manifold and jack up the engine before you could begin to get the oil pan out, and you still had to rotate the crank to clear the oil pan, because the engine was installed in a tight fitting porthole in an otherwise very solid front crossmember.


Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
 
IRStuff, I thought my OP highlighted what I saw as the disadvantages clearly enough.

FP UDDU (typical) is statically and dynamically balanced, hence no additional CWs required either end like on a cross plane V8.

Ford's UDUD FP reintroduces the dynamic imbalance similar to the cross plane hence the need for thicker, opposed CWs. So why go FP but loose the mass/inertia savings by going UDUD ?

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
They're only big if there are no big advantages. Inline engines that I have seen generally occupy more volume, by a substantial amount. The weight of the extra structure would seem to far outweigh the balance weights.

I do suggest you re-read your OP, since you wrote: "There are two main benefits of a Flat-Plane:"

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //faq731-376 forum1529
 
BrianPeterson, I agree with your firing order analysis, but I don't see an advantage in terms of intake/exhaust pulse separation over a conventional flat crank. Either way, a 4 into 2 or 4 into 2 into 1 arrangement per bank will yield equal separation.
However, I do see an advantage in avoiding firing impulses on adjacent cylinders along the crankshaft (if that is in fact an advantage and one worth pursuing), which I don't see a way to do with a conventional flat crank.
The rotating inertia disadvantage remains.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
 
Did you answer your own inquiry? The UDUD is similar to the cross plane and thus perhaps can be machined on existing machine tools.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if the layout contributes towards brand sound. I can recall a European company many years ago wanting to rid their new (cross) V8 of its burble as it sounded like an old US muscle car, not something refined. Maybe this unusual flat V8 has the right perfomance characteristics, but still sounds "traditional"? I.e. the opposite situation to the European company.

Remember the TDM 850 parallel twin, with its unusual 270° firing interval? Some said that was all about making it sound like a V-Twin, not about performance - the extra hassle of balancing it was the price to be paid.

Steve
 
Making Ford's flat crank V8 sound "traditional" would take a lot of extra effort, as by design the firing impulses per bank are even (unlike a "traditional" V8).
Contrariwise, I vaguely remember pictures of exotic cylinder heads and exhaust system applied to the 351 Cleveland V8 as installed in the Ford Pantera that brought all the exhaust ports to the inside of the "Vee" and knitted them together into bundle of snakes for an even firing header system. I might have this wrong as it may have been a Ford smallblock applied to the original GT40, or a Pantera Cleveland with conventional cylinder heads where the individual exhaust pipes were extended rearward as needed to join them into even firing pairs and quartettes. But you get the idea, i.e. going to a lot of effort to get an even firing exhaust system from a "cross-plane" V8.


"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
 
I am starting to suspect it was down to machining/production capabilities. Seems most plausible. Look at how many 90deg V6 engines are out there with the costly split-pin cranks just because of 90deg V8 production lines. Seems a shame...still a good discussion point.

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
SomptingGuy said:
It wouldn't surprise me if the layout contributes towards brand sound. I can recall a European company many years ago wanting to rid their new (cross) V8 of its burble as it sounded like an old US muscle car, not something refined. Maybe this unusual flat V8 has the right perfomance characteristics, but still sounds "traditional"? I.e. the opposite situation to the European company.
I suspect that the details of the exhaust's primary pipe plumbing are having more to do with the 5.2 FPC sounding a bit different than expected for a FPC. Swap the stock header arrangement out for a set of aftermarket long tube headers and the character of the sound changes.

There's a link in to the "revised" sound. Pretty sure I've heard a stock GT350, and it's nothing like this.


Norm
 
At last, some light shed on the exact issue I have been trying to explain/get to the bottom of:

[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.edmunds.com/ford/mustang/2015/long-term-road-test/2015-ford-mustang-gt-coyote-voodoo-cross-plane-flat-plane.html[/url]

So...if I am reading into it right...its all about MARKETING! The sound it makes seems to have driven the decision making on the odd layout.

Annoyed I didn't find that in my searchings.

Regards,

Jon Reynolds
 
I strongly suspect the resulting sound is more a result of the unconventional "unequal-length 4-into-3-into-1 exhaust manifolds" than the crankpin arrangement itself. Perhaps the crankpin arrangement helped facilitate the desired manifold configuration, but I'd need to see the manifold layout and actual firing order to evaluate that.

"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
 
Does that oil filler cap really say 5W-50? No stinking energy conserving going on here!

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 
Is the rotating inertia of that actually as great as Crossplane crank V8? Do their counter weights offer potential benefits for different crankshaft excitations?

Having more rotating inertia makes the power delivery more gentile. That pays off on race tracks: It delivers smoother power impulses to the drivetrain, and the engine has more inertial torque when you need to drop the clutch.

When I was racing motocross and XC, it was common to add flywheel weights to the engines to make them more ride-able.

"Formal education is a weapon, whose effect depends on who holds it in his hands and at whom it is aimed." ~ Joseph Stalin
 
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