Winter tires that don't work in snow 1

[MintJulep]

Company recalls more than 541,000 winter tires over lack of traction in snow

Owner notification letters should be mailed out by February 1, 2025.

local12.com

 

[TugboatEng]

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As a coastal California resident, I miss the days of cheap tires. It seems that about 15-20 years ago a lot of the low end tires disappeared off the market, I assumed due to quality requirements. I was able to buy tires for my 1/2 ton truck with American sounding names made in Vietnam from a tire shop run by a Mexican cartel for about $50 per wheel installed.

 

[GregLocock]

Yes, probably to do with this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_and_Ford_tire_controversy 1996

everybody got very worked up about tires at that point (rightly), and that has led to semi reasonable suggestions that tires should have an expiry date, and the rather more fascinating question of whether the tire manufacturers should set the tire pressure for a given usage, rather than the vehicle OEM. I suspect (but don't know) that the cheap SE Asian manufacturers, using old tooling and old manufacturing methods will have pulled out of the US market for liability reasons. In Australia or UK the tire shop would be responsible for not supplying goods of merchantable quality.

 

[XR250]

No doubt they will be burned to generate electricity for the new batch.

 

[waross]

No doubt they will be burned to generate electricity for the new batch.

More likely shredded and used to make rubber matting or used as rubber crumbs for equestrian tracks.

 

[dtimberlake]

Fortune Tormenta LMD Touring / All Season Tire

The Fortune Tormenta LMD is a touring all season tire for passenger cars. Learn more.

fortunetireusa.com

Tread-wise they look like a typical no-season tire to me.

- Got the fairly meaningless M+S rating ( just based on "open" tread area I think ).
- I think the "3-Peak Mountain Snowflake" (3PMS) rating requires passing some (Packed?) snow acceleration test.

Last week I got some studless NEXEN Winguard Sport 2 tires that are 3PMS rated.
Naturally yesterday I read some stuff on the Internet that said they " do not replace real snow tires."

Typical Blizzaks seem to have the 3PMS rating.
Not sure if there is an official sidewall or other marking that signifies magic low temperature rubber with microspheres etc that I have come to link with useful dash of confident ice traction.

We, or at least I, shall see.

 

[LittleInch]

They weren't that cheap either - $210 each?

Looked fairly chunky thread at elast for the second set.

SO a recall of half a million tyres at $200 each - $100 million ?? Ok plenty won't bother and the material costs is less, but still possibly $20 million.

 

[Sym P. le]

From NHTSA, four tires are named (but not the Tormenta LMD FSR103 posted above), all with aggressive tread for mud / rough terrain. Note that the manufacturer has not been quick to alter their web based promotional material, from which these images were retrieved. (Edit: After checking the web archive, I note that the 3PMS designation has been removed since its previous appearance on Aug 4 for at least the '310 series.)

FORTUNE TORMENTA M/T FSR310
FORTUNE TORMENTA R/T FSR309
PRINX HiCOUNTRY M/T HM1
PRINX HiCOUNTRY R/T HR1

 

[TugboatEng]

I didn't look to see that they were MT or mud terrain tires. It's generally known by off-road enthusiasts that MT tires are not good in snow. AT is preferred.

 

[EdStainless]

Traction of tires is spooky.
Cold snow?
Wet snow?
Cold wet roads?
Cold dry roads?
Warm wet roads?
Warm dry roads?
There is no tire out there that is good on more than 3 of those.

 

[waross]

Not sure if there is an official sidewall or other marking that signifies magic low temperature rubber with microspheres etc that I have come to link with useful dash of confident ice traction.

Winter tire have a "Snow Flake" marking on the sidewall.
M + S alone does not qualify for winter tires.

"Snow Flake" tires have a softer rubber composition than most non-snowflake tires.
Snowflake tire wear out faster than non-snow flake tires.
Where I live, snowflake tires are required by law for 6 months of the year.

 

[BrianPetersen]

We haven't a legal requirement for winter tires, but past experience has been that so-called all-season tires are hopeless in snow. For the last several cars, I've put snow tires on the stock rims for use in winter, and bought a nice set of summer rims and tires.

Some tire manufacturers are now claiming to have winter tires that can be used year round, but I'm skeptical. Probably they're some combination of not quite as good as they could be in winter, and not quite as good as they could be in summer.

Currently using Sumitomo Ice Edge tires.

 

[EdStainless]

I have been running Nokian WGR5's for a while now on a Toyota Avalon and a Sienna.
They are fine in light snow but very good in the cold wet sloppy stuff that makes up most of winter in WI.
And they last long enough that for the amount that we drive we leave them on all year.
They are a bit louder and harsher than a good 3 season tire.
And they don't perform as well in hot weather, but I can live with that.
The best info out there is from Tyre Reviews on YouTube.

 

[drawoh]

We haven't a legal requirement for winter tires, but past experience has been that so-called all-season tires are hopeless in snow. For the last several cars, I've put snow tires on the stock rims for use in winter, and bought a nice set of summer rims and tires.

Some tire manufacturers are now claiming to have winter tires that can be used year round, but I'm skeptical. Probably they're some combination of not quite as good as they could be in winter, and not quite as good as they could be in summer.

Currently using Sumitomo Ice Edge tires.

Brian,

I have recently purchased a new(er) car, and I promised my insurance company I would get winter tires. When I brought the car in, the dealer informed me that my car had all-weather radials, as opposed to all-season radials. All-weather tires are supposed to be effective at clearing water and slush, and should be good for winter driving, or at least, better than all-season.

My insurance company expects me to drive on winter tires, so I am driving on winter tires.

 

[CWB1]

I'm not normally one to criticize FMVSS but this isnt a safety concern, its somewhere between severe govt overreach and protecting consumer wallets. There's three types of customers for "snow tires" - 1. drivers needing something better than high-performance tires on winter-driven sports cars, 2. paranoid drivers, and 3. drivers who lack basic skill yet possess a license. The later two are the majority and overwhelmingly live in mild urban climates.

Personally I'd be more concerned about the ability of drivers who bought the recalled tires than the tires themselves.

 

[IRstuff]

Ostensibly, there is supposedly a difference between all-weather/season tires and winter tires, namely the tire rubber performance/traction in freezing temperatures.

 

[IRstuff]

According to the list of affected tires, they are all R/T (rugged terrain) or M/T (mud terrain) designated, which means they were never intended to be snow tires.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2024/RCAK-24T014-2169.pdf

 

[Sym P. le]

... but they were being promoted as snow tires -----> Wayback Machine - Aug 4.

Features & Benefits​

• 3-Peak Mountain Snowflake rated for all-weather conditions

 

[MintJulep]

There's three types of customers for "snow tires"

Well, no.

There's plenty of places in the world where the approach to winter road maintenance is "There's snow. Deal with it." Scraping every last snowflake off the road and dumping tons of salt or other deicing chemicals is not the universal approach.

 

[waross]

Winter tires are required on most British Columbia highways, including:

• All highways in the North
• All highways in the Interior
• Sections of some highways on the South Coast
• Sections of some highways on Vancouver Island

That covers an area bigger than Texas.