Winter tires that don't work in snow 1

[MintJulep]

Company recalls more than 541,000 winter tires over lack of traction in snow

Owner notification letters should be mailed out by February 1, 2025.

local12.com

 

[GregLocock]

Here's google AI on glass temperatures and tire types, it is at least indicatively right

The glass transition temperature (Tg) of rubber in snow tires is around 60°F below zero. This means that the rubber in snow tires stays flexible and pliable in cold temperatures, which helps the tires maintain good traction and grip on the road.

The glass transition temperature is the temperature at which a polymer, like a tire, changes its properties and becomes hard and brittle. Rubber with a low glass transition temperature is more resistant to cracking and fracture in cold temperatures.


Here are the glass transition temperatures for different types of tires:

• Race tires: 40°F
• Summer tires: Just below freezing
• All-season tires: Most are still pliable below zero, but some start losing grip before that

Winter tires have a softer compound and deeper, narrower tread blocks than other tires. These features help the tires deflect minor road imperfections and reduce stopping distances.

 

[dtimberlake]

Winter tire have a "Snow Flake" marking on the sidewall.
M + S alone does not qualify for winter tires.
View attachment 2567
"Snow Flake" tires have a softer rubber composition than most non-snowflake tires.
Snowflake tire wear out faster than non-snow flake tires.
Where I live, snowflake tires are required by law for 6 months of the year.

I think studdable snow tires as in the picture above //may// not have rubber quite as fancy as the stuff used in the outer 75% in studless tires.

Tire Rack says the three peak mountain snowflake 3PMSF symbol only indicates testing of acceleration on medium packed snow.
A grade ≥ 110% of an all season is required.

The rest of Tire Rack's statement kind of suggests there may be tires with that aren't "dedicated winter/snow" but still managed to earn the 3MPSF rating.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I just stick with what my Finnish brother in laws advise for tyres.

Even though they make rude comments about me having a 999cc engine and I can just use summer...

The Finnish slow down to USA speed limits when it's white roads.

 

[btrueblood]

I grew up driving a variety of vehicles in wet slushy snow conditions typical of the Pacific Northwest hilly and mountain areas. All of our cars and trucks had chains, and we learned how to put them on at a young age. Some people ran studs...but they had to chain up for the mountain passes too, if the cops were checking, or if they went without, we would usually pass them (spun out on the roadside) somewhere up the hill, or just past the summit.

Today, my wife's AWD mini-SUV is ridiculously capable in heavy, wet, icy, sloppy conditions, with factory stock tires (some kind of All-Season radial). Driven judiciously (i.e. slowly and carefully) it gets us up the pass for skiing, and back home again with a stop at the grocery store, with minimal fuss. Tire technology has come a long way. FWIW, the weather here is rarely below zero F, and hardly ever even in the teens, so true snow tires (60F below per Greg's article) would be overkill.

 

[MintJulep]

I just stick with what my Finnish brother in laws advise for tyres.

Good plan. The Finns know a bit about winter.

Hakkapeliitta (now Nokian) are the best winter tires in my experience.

Passenger car winter tires / Nokian Tyres

Find the right tires for your vehicle for safe and comfortable driving. Get to know all Nokian Tyres products and find a dealer near you. Numerous innovations, over one hundred winter tire patents, and high rankings in magazine tests year after year have made the Nokian Tyres winter tires legendary.

www.nokiantyres.com

 

[CWB1]

There's plenty of places in the world where the approach to winter road maintenance is "There's snow. Deal with it." Scraping every last snowflake off the road and dumping tons of salt or other deicing chemicals is not the universal approach.

I'm aware. Half my family lives in rural Alaska where the maintained roads are compacted snow/ice with a sprinkle of gravel at intersections, and most arent.

Southern Canuckistan's traffic laws are among the world's most paranoid because their drivers are among the world's worst. Its like California, definitely not an example of what is necessary or even sensible.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Good plan. The Finns know a bit about winter.

Hakkapeliitta (now Nokian) are the best winter tires in my experience.

Passenger car winter tires / Nokian Tyres

Find the right tires for your vehicle for safe and comfortable driving. Get to know all Nokian Tyres products and find a dealer near you. Numerous innovations, over one hundred winter tire patents, and high rankings in magazine tests year after year have made the Nokian Tyres winter tires legendary.

www.nokiantyres.com

I had Gislaved winter tires on my Jetta, and they were fantastic. (Swedish company)

 

[drawoh]

Well, no.

There's plenty of places in the world where the approach to winter road maintenance is "There's snow. Deal with it." Scraping every last snowflake off the road and dumping tons of salt or other deicing chemicals is not the universal approach.

Here in Toronto Canada, it snows, and then they clear the roads. The clearing does not happen instantly. In the meantime, we must deal with the slippery conditions. I cannot image anyone else doing better enough to justify sticking with summer tires.

 

[waross]

Here in Toronto Canada, it snows, and then they clear the roads. The clearing does not happen instantly. In the meantime, we must deal with the slippery conditions. I cannot image anyone else doing better enough to justify sticking with summer tires.

Things are slipping in Toronto.
I haven't been there for years but I remember the roads being preemptively salted when there was a forecast of snow.
The snow would melt as it fell on the salted roads, (or not).

 

[BrianPetersen]

Things are slipping in Toronto.
I haven't been there for years but I remember the roads being preemptively salted when there was a forecast of snow.
The snow would melt as it fell on the salted roads, (or not).

That depends on having an accurate forecast! Yesterday's forecast for today in my area and points northwest was for <1 cm of snow. Got up this morning to see everything covered, and ran my errands this morning on unplowed roads. Weather radar showed a streamer of heavy snow coming in downwind of Lake Huron, and nothing much north or south of it. Those are hard to predict. I saw a plow in the ditch at one point ... that surely didn't help matters. We got about 10 cm.

 

[MintJulep]

Relevant editorial.

COLUMN: It's time for Ontario to mandate winter tires

Relying on road salt to pave way for safe conditions isn't sustainable, columnist says

www.barrietoday.com

 

[CWB1]

Given the lack of traffic, flat/straight road construction, beautiful maintenance, and the incredibly low speeds/limits, Ontario could prob stop using road salt tomorrow without much impact. Driving the 401 from Windsor out past Toronto for example is like idling down an airport taxiway - a massive, beautifully smooth, empty road with 100kph rural, 80 kph urban limits. I drive most its length several times annually and always have to resist temptation to set the cruise at 150kph. Cross the border at any point along it and the number of lanes shrinks by half, speeds double, and you have to dodge both potholes and traffic.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Scandinavian countries banned road salt years ago.

They do a good line of hot sand to increase the friction if needed.

They also hot sand white runways as well.

 

[waross]

Hot sand.
Who'd of thought that road salt would have a carbon footprint? grin
In Canada, road sand often has salt added to prevent freezing in the stockpiles.
So, sand is less salt but still salt will be deposited.

 

[LionelHutz]

Driving the 401 from Windsor out past Toronto for example is like idling down an airport taxiway - a massive, beautifully smooth, empty road with 100kph rural, 80 kph urban limits.

I'm guessing this is sarcasm. The people I know from the USA laugh at how badly and fast the driving on the 400 series highways is.

Also, where do I go right across the border in the USA to find 200kph speed limits?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Well Estonian in laws have issues in the snow.

The speed they drive at is crazy to me....