Would you recommend engineering to a recent high school graduate? 31

[EngineerDave]

I have had this discussion with other engineering colleagues of mine. Assuming a student was talented and did well in math in the sciences, would you recommend that they go into engineering, or something else like law or medicine?

The reason for our cynicism is in part due to the lack of jobs and the decrease in manufacturing in the US.

What I would recommend, to say my nephew who is a few years away from graduating high school is that engineering is a great undergraduate major, but for grad school perhaps a law degree or a medical degree may ultimately be more effective.

All in all I don't regret going into engineering, but I do worry about it's future in the US.

 

[RDK]

This is not as much of an issue in Canada because the profession is somewhat protected by the associations. Here I feel that we are still considered to be true professionals.

Here to call yourself an engineer you must be a registered professional engineer. There are some exemptions for power engineers (boiler operators), railway engineers (train drivers) and military engineers. There is no industrial exemption.

If you want to proceed in this direction lobby your state government for mandatory registration of all engineers, do away with the industrial exemption, make the profession self regulating instead of being a state license board like carpenters and protection or the title engineer.



Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[ProEpro]

The reason that unions work for Doctors, lawyers and realitors is that those jobs require the physical presence of the person doing the job. There aren't alot of situations where that works for engineers espeacily when the factories have allready left the country. Soon the samething will true of managers and everyone else. Unions won't help us anymore than they helped steel workers.




ProEpro

http://www.whitelightdesign.com

 

[rhodie]

RDK

I appreciate the reality you are metering out above, telling me about my options and such.

I'm sure that I will eventually end up taking less money for my services as an opportunity cost for remaining where I like to live.

I don't, however, agree with your notion that I should accept the enevitable "new economy" and make the best of it. I refuse to accept this on the grounds that by doing so I am contributing to the death of my country. That is the simple reality of the situation. I have a nationalist streak deep and wide, and it is my burden to "right the ship", not "ride it down, and raid the kitchen" as so many of my predecessors have done.

Again, I appreciate what you are saying (and you may be far wiser than I), but I cannot ignore a situation that I have every capability of helping to change.

 

[tkordick]

I have to agree with RDK, if you feel strongly about engineering, get registered and press for mandatory registration. Some schools are already acting toward this by requiring passing of the EIT or FE prior to graduation.

There are jobs out there that do pay well and will be around forever. Take for example the power industry - you cannot import power, instead in must be generated locally.

Back to the question of this topic - I believe in exposing children to hobbies that first provide a lot of fun and then require thinking and hands-on mechanical interaction to keep the hobby going. Primarily speaking motorcross, drag racing, street rodding, old tractors, etc. If they find a desire to be involved in these hobbies, the engineering aspects will come on there own and if they do not want to be an engineer, at least they will have a strong understanding of how things work. I have not found one person with a strong mechanical background that was hindered in life by it.

Lastly, nothing should be pushed on anyone but you should be supportive of what ever they want to do. One thing I have told many though is that whatever degree they choose, it should at least provide more of an income than if they did not get a degree.

 

[miner00]

First off, I would say you should never push someone towards Engineering School. If it is not something that they want to do, it would be wrong to think they could learn to enjoy it. I remember watching several of the "best and brightest" flunk out of the first semester. Engineers are born, not made.

Secondly, you are all really depressing me about the future. I really hope that the situation is not as dire as is being expressed here. Not to carry the PE/Non-PE argument into another thread, but I am curious how everyone getting a license is going to keep our jobs here.

Say we assume that a PE will make more money than a non-PE, a PE will have more power to control the work environment and a PE will contract for a little more money but no benefits. This takes control out of the hands of the company(which they won't like) so they will start a power struggle. In the end, the ones writing the checks will fire everyone and either ship your duties overseas or hire a few of you back as contractors without having to pay benefits. all of a sudden you will have to do twice the work for the same pay because there are fewer of you. Since there will be so many engineers out of work, the market will be saturated again making it difficult to refuse.

In essence, being a PE cost a lot of people good steady jobs, shipped more of our work overseas and took away your healthcare and 401K bennies. What did this help?

 

[QCE]

I am amazed that people don't realize that some career options go in circles. When I started university everyone said we need teachers. Soon every one was taking education and now surprise - surprise we have too many teachers. So as a young engineer where 100% of the people of my graduating class have work. Please keep encouraging people not to go into engineering. Yeah it sucks over here no jobs. I had 3 job offers before I graduated. Some engineering disciplines like engineering physics which only had 10 students. The whole class received job offers from some companies.

RDK is very correct on engineers in Canada having a very good association to protect their name. In England in USA you have mechanics and pretty much everyone else calling them engineers. From what I have seen that would never fly in Canada. The USA needs to step up and make the public and industry know that engineers are professional and not a dime a dozen like one of the other posts said.

miner00

This is exactly what I'm talking about a PE is an engineer and in my opinion there is no such thing as a non PE.

 

[beamer]

I've read the posts with interest because I am at a point in my life where I am considering leaving the engineering field. I am a 33 year old structural engineer working for a consulting engineering firm in the middle of America. The economy has finally caught up with the construction industry in this area and I fear that my job is not secure. I have been laid off before (2 years after graduating), but was able to find a good job within 2 weeks. Of course this was 8 years ago and it does not appear that it will be that easy again. I now have a child, a car payment and house to pay for and am looking not just for a good salary, but "security". That word doesn't seem to apply anymore in the world and that is too bad. I do enjoy this profession, but I am beginning to realize that it is dying and I don't wnat to be a 45 year old engineer looking for work. I think this latest downslide has all but extinguished any flame I had for engineering.

So, as far as my recommending this profession, I would say yes only if you have the desire to promote yourself, kiss up to the right people and study all that it will take to be an engineer, in that order, because it no longer means as much to be an engineer and that job opportunities are shrinking. I would definitely warn them about the current state of engineering and what the future looks like and to choose an area that will still exist in this country in 20 or 30 years.

 

[jb48]

Sad but True,

A fellow engineer that I worked with a few years ago confided that his teenage son was trying to decide whether to go to engineering school or become a musician. When his son asked for his advice, he had to truthfully tell him that joining a rock band was probably the more stable career path.

 

[HgTX]

[I didn't pay attention to the date and the thread's a year older than I thought, but my post is already composed so what the hell.]

Huh. When I was in grad school I thought pretty hard about whether to be an engineer or a musician. I wound up deciding to be an engineer after all. Then again, I'm a civil engineer, and as long as infrastructure keeps falling apart or being rendered obsolete, I have a job.

I can't see comparing engineering to medicine or law. Each takes a different set of skills. Shouldn't the path pursued depend on what the kid likes to do?

Hg

 

[liberty]

No one mentioned this in this thread so I'll add it.

To recommend any career to a high school graduate who doesn't have his heart set on engineering, a good idea would be to weigh the cost of education with the income potential for that career. Unfortunately, the cost of an engineering degree is high compared to the income an engineer graduating 4 years from now can expect.

If the student is a person who won't mind putting in long hours away from those he cares about in return for a big paycheck, they might consider a commercial driver's license -- the education is cheap and with hard work you will be making 6 figures a lot sooner than your buddy who went off to an engineering university.

If you value your friends, girlfriend, wife, and eventually children, I would recommend a career where you can move anywhere you want and still pursue your career. Doctor, lawyer, pharmacist, and musician have been mentioned. I'll add dentist (or other medical specialist not usually referred to as "Doctor"), real estate agent (or other sales), vetrinarian, and super market manager.

It's true service-related professions will suffer as we continue to lose our mfg base, lowering exports and the value of the dollar. I blame outsourcing companies less than I do our leaders who continue to run high budget deficits. But that debate is for another forum.

 

[Lorentz]

Though this thread is old, it appears there is still a lot of interest in it, so I'll put in my 2 cents.

Before commenting on engineering, I'd like everyone to take a step back and change the question by asking:

Would you recommend nursing to a recent high school graduate?

From what I've heard of nursing regarding pay, working conditions, benefits and job security, I would not recommend nursing as a career. It is certainly not a highly regarded "profession" on par with fields like medicine, dentistry etc.

However, if a young person felt that nursing was their one true calling, I would advise them NOT to enroll in a 4 year university "Registered Nursing" program. Instead, I would let them know that they can become a "Licensed Practical Nurse" after only a 2 year program at community college. This is a much less expensive option, and if they become disenchanted with nursing, they will not have lost as much as someone who went through a full 4 year university program.

Now back to engineering.

No, I wouldn't recommend engineering to a recent high school graduate, but if their heart was set on it, I would advise them to enroll in a technologist program at a community college. I say this because I believe in the near future most (but not all) jobs currently held by engineering graduates will be turned over to "Registered Professional Technologists" (let's use "RPTs" for short).

To see why I say this, check out the following link to the Alberta engineering association:

http://www.apegga.org/members/registration/registered_technologists.htm

Click on the link "APPROVED DEFINED SCOPE OF PRACTICE" and you can view a 7 page document listing a total of 109 job classifications that can be undertaken by RPTs:

http://www.apegga.org/pdf/defined_scope.pdf

As far as I can see, technologists in Alberta can now replace engineers in virtually all job functions. I believe that this is in the process of happening in other Canadian provinces, and some of the threads in this forum have mentioned similar moves in some U.S. states as well.

Now add this to off-shoring, and productivity software that further eliminates engineering jobs, and there doesn't seem to be much left for young people just entering the field.

Sorry to say this folks, but anyone who can face reality has to admit that engineering as a profession is locked in a tailspin.

 

[Gman1999]

I have been reading through all the posts in this thread and though it is old in terms of its start it is very informative. Right now my background is in CADD technology specifically I have a mechanical-electro mechanical perspective on that and have learned such applications as solidworks, mechanical desktop, inventor, auto cad, and pads power pcb/power logic. I have been fortunate to find a job doing CAD work though only as a contractual thing right now and that was only after a good 8 months of searching which i started in my final year of my cadd program. I have always been set on engineering. I took 4 yrs of drafting in high school. I started at Umass lowell in the college of engineering and though I failed out of there pretty much I have been focused to stay on the course. Last 2 yrs been deans list and honors society and I now stand ready to make the next decision. I am looking at two distinct professional directions that I could go. I know I can go mechanical engineering because I really enjoy the process of mechanical design and all that goes with it. IN this I would plan on taking the FE and then the PE when the time comes. The other route is to go architechture. Either way i know I would be happy. It is just tough to throw the uncertainty factor into the equation of what the job market will be like in time. Even in Mass. things are tough. that is why i am looking at what my plan should be.

 

[sms]

Maybe I am just lucky, but the negative attitude toward engineering in this thread and several of the others just amazes and confounds me. Engineering has been very very good to me, I have never been without a job, and in fact I typically get one or two offers a year to move to another company. I make excellent money, on par with or beyond the sales people, MBA's, and even some of the lawyers I know. I have been at it 20 years split between three companies, and I have never regretted it for a minute. I have done intersting work that has taken me all over the world. I have also had the opportunity to work with some of the best minds in the world. And I graduated with mediocre grades from a little known cow college in southern New Mexico, not MIT.

Being an engineer kept my grandfather employed through the depression and kept his 8 kids fed and clothed. As an engineer my Dad was able to raise our family in a very comfortable middle class setting, and it has supplied him with a very comfortable retirement.

In a nutshell, not only would I recommend engineering as a career, I often do!

 

[Lorentz]

Hi sms!

It appears that for the last three generations (75 years or so?), members of your family have chosen wisely and been rewarded with satisfying careers.

But remember, this forum is about "Where is Engineering Going in the Next 5 Years?" That's about when the next crop of grads will be looking for work, and most of them will be hoping to enjoy the next 30 or so years after that as employed engineers.

You state:

"In a nutshell, not only would I recommend engineering as a career, I often do!"

Is that a blanket recommendation for ALL fields of engineering? If so, I must say you have an extremely optimistic outlook.

 

[makeup]

I,ve experienced four lots of redundancy, the last was over 10 months. I too have 20 years experience at all levels I am now completing a BENG Hons degree as a mature student (39) and still cannot attract work in engineering unless I except poor remunerations or relocate for nothing. Now, I have taken the opportunity to get out, its not what I want, but its better than I had when I was in. My experience.

 

[Gman1999]

I am guessing as a young professional. Getting into things now as a drafter and continuing to through the academic world I will need to have a concrete plan. Not that I have not hadn't laid it out already but I am guessing that it is even more important to develop a skill set that is highly marketable, Push forward with formal education( really hoping to get into a tear 1 Grad school when the time comes maybe MIT if i can get in ) then beyond formal education further research, reading, and any activity that can help in my professional development. The other angle I can see is growth and expansion as I go up in degree level undergrad as an engineering major then grad work go for the MBA into the mix. There still are ways to enjoy good engineering careers I guess now is determining what is the formual for success. Always remebering at the same time that it is to be to the good of society at large to.

 

[Lorentz]

Hi makeup!

Thanks for sharing your experience with the forum, I hope things improve for you.

I note that your specialty is "Mechanical", which is also the area sms has worked in for the last 20 years. The fact that he has had better experiences leads me to believe that not all areas of mechanical engineering offer equal opportunities.

Perhaps the members of this forum could begin threads to comment on which areas of engineering have the best and/or worst outlook over the next 5 years? Especially helpful would be any thoughts on fields that offer re-employment for engineers who have been displaced due to off-shoring.

 

[HgTX]

If you're not overly fond of money, there will always be a need for civil engineers, and although more and more gets outsourced to private contractors, government work is less likely than private work to get sent overseas.

State budgets are tight these days, hiring freezes on and off, but there's still a certain amount of attrition, and road and bridge construction is still going strong. For that matter, general contractors and fabricators might or might not need engineers. Construction project management is another branch to look into. You can also get an industrial management degree instead of a generic MBA.

Keep in mind, any job that involves routinely putting on a hard hat and going out to a location (a factory, a construction site, etc.) is less likely to be offshored. How fond are you of climate control?

I suppose it might even be possible for a "surplused" mechanical engineer to reconfigure themselves as a structural/civil engineer, but I'd advise getting a degree in the subject (MS; you'd probably be bored by the baccalaureate offerings in CivE) to show on the resume or else you couldn't compete well with the "real" CivEs.

Me, I'm a civil engineer because I have loved the look of steel structures since I was a little kid. After XX years of school, I'm not used to money anyway, and although I'm quite fond of climate control, it's worth braving the heat for relatively short times to go hang around with steel.

Hg

 

[sms]

My career has been focused on solving dynamics problems in rotating machinery, typically turbines, compressors, large motors, pumps, fans etc, in refining, power generation, paper, and chemicals. I currently work in the central engineering support department of a large chemical company..

 

[makeup]

No I would not. Engineering is an expendable resource that can be found a lot cheaper in third world countries. They work harder, faster and longer than most western countries. They are in general brighter and prepared to move anywhere and expect less. Why would I employ you.