Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

  • Congratulations KootK on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

24-level building tower fire in West London 33

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ingenuity

Structural
May 17, 2001
2,349
Link

Looks like the building is fully engulfed. Residents trapped in the upper levels.

40 engine and 200 firefighter response.
 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

excerpt from that report: " It confirmed that the aluminium cladding panels and the insulation foam were combustible and noted that some of the insulation did not have a manufacturer’s logo on it."
From that , it sounds as if even the material they were supposed to use , was not.
B.E.

You are judged not by what you know, but by what you can do.
 
Wow, so they actually did use rubberized flashing in the 150mm gaps between the vertical sides of the windows and the existing concrete window opening. This is what I originally thought and then considered it far too egregious. I eventually found an intumescent flashing that looked quite similar. It will be interesting to see what was approved by the RBKC Planning & Building Control staff and what was supplied in the field. Was there really any difference in cost between using custom sized windows vs the extra labor of having to cobble together a gap filling solution with standard factory sized window units or was it all project schedule motivated?
 
I've noted on a couple of other sites that the professional architectural association has been very quiet. Would have thought with the lack of involvement and large number of deaths that they would have been 'front and centre', and also that criminal charges have been slow.

Dik
 
The disaster was the result of cutting the red tape (regulations).

Link



 
bimr... Not cutting red tape.

Incompetent government management employees making decisions on items beyond their understanding. Contrary to the article, cutting red tape is not the issue and only shifts the focus away from the real issue.

Dik
 
But dik, those who want more red tape always point to lack of regulation when something, anything, goes wrong.
 
Hokie, that's the reason the article was written the way it was... to deflect from the real issues.

Dik
 
dik (Structural) said:
bimr... Not cutting red tape.

Incompetent government management employees making decisions on items beyond their understanding. Contrary to the article, cutting red tape is not the issue and only shifts the focus away from the real issue.

Waiting to hear the "real reason".

Hotpoint fridge?

No regulations against flammable cladding?

No regulations that require sprinklers?

No regulations that require fire brigades to be trained adequately and have the proper equipment?

Contractor cost cutting and greed?

Bureaucrats that fail to enforce regulations?

Failure of elected officials to adopt recommended national building codes that help state and local jurisdictions enhance the public's social and economic well-being by coordinating efforts across geographic boundaries to make technical findings, improve performance criteria and promote standards to ensure safe, durable, accessible and efficient buildings?


 
Or maybe just poor education and training of architects?
 
Problem is Hokie, that I don't think an Architect was involved in the decision...

Dik
 
If that is the case, then I would agree that regulation is required. An architect (or a facade engineer) should be involved in all such projects.
 
...there is no hue and cry from the professional architects... wonder why?

Dik
 
Because they are not professional?

There was an architectural firm whose title block appeared on the drawings linked above. Studio E LLC. No idea of their role in the project beyond producing those drawings.
 
Architect Magazine is covering the story:

[URL unfurl="true" said:
http://www.architectmagazine.com/practice/leaked-grenfell-tower-report-reveals-shoddy-renovations-failed-to-meet-building-regulations-fire-could-have-been-avoided_o[/URL]]
 
From the BBC's Panorama - "The programme has been advised that the way Celotex tested and sold the insulation could amount to corporate manslaughter".

Link

If the way the BBC has characterized the actions of Celotex, they are in a world of hurt.
 
epoxybot,

There was a lot of discussion in this thread about the role the insulation played, and whether it was a bigger contributor to the fire than the composite panels.
 
epoxybot said:
If the way the BBC has characterized the actions of Celotex, they are in a world of hurt.

The real responsibility of the fire rests with those in authority, not, the suppliers. They were either ignorant or incompetent.

Dik
 
The number of successful prosecutions for corporate manslaughter in the UK is painfully small, and most seem to result in fines rather than imprisonment of company directors:
The Grenfell incident obviously carries a lot of political and emotional weight, and there will be a strong desire to see a successful prosecution of those responsible. It is (possibly) worthy of note that the only prosecution brought against a public body - part of the NHS - resulted in acquittal on the direction of the judge. It will be interesting to see if Kensington and Chelsea Council are brought to trial and whether the prosecution leads to conviction or acquittal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor