$2500 Car 10

[Ashereng]

Now this is what I call the future of engineering.

http://www.news.com/2300-11389_3-6225465-1.html

A $2500 car.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[dcasto]

Its a step back in engineering. The car should deliver 70mpg and not 50 mpg. It is not safe to drive except at speeds under 20 mph.

 

[KENAT]

My boss got all excited about this till issues like emissions, safety etc came up.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[msquared48]

I'm not worried about the safety as long as Big Brother outlaws any larger vehicles on the road, to include big rigs, concrete trucks, SUV's, and Prius's (3000#) to be fecious. This will never fly in the US, except upon impact.

It is interesting to note that, with a quick glance, the logo on the hood is very similar to that of Toyota, but dissimilar. Kind of like the fiasco a few years ago where some products were labled, "Made in USA", as opposed to "Made in the USA. They were actually made out of the country, in the "country" of USA. No lie.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[melone]

You still can't get rid of trees, animals, etc....

 

[GregLocock]

dcasto, I imagine TCO (total cost of ownership) is one of the most important factors. Could it be that the price increase to get 70 mpg (not a goal achieved by any USAn 4 seater I think) would more than offset the increased cost of fuel? Why hold the Indian car to a higher standard than your own?

Worrying about greenhouse/CO2 emissions is a rich person's conceit.

Also bear in mind that the gains in going from 50 mpg to 70 mpg are much smaller than those in going from 30 to 50.


Cheers

Greg Locock

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[jmw]

Tatra are rumoured to be about to buy Landrover.... Let's see if they can their prices down.
By the way, Greg is right. When computing the carbon footprint, it is about lifetime costs from manufacture to recycling at the end of life, not just fuel economy. I'd like to bet that these cars will be used till they literally fall apart.
It is an interesting conflict between safety and environment. Many older cars were caused to be scrapped even though they had many more functional years left in them by changes in legislation. Incidentally, in France this meant the demise of some of the more desirable old Citroens, amongst others.

Interesting would be to compute the optimum lifetime/mileage for cars; the break-even point at which further use of a less efficient car is no longer balanced by the manufacturing/recycling costs.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[GregLocock]

Rule of thumb used to be 10 years, but in practice I am sure it is more than that since the fleet is not actually getting any more efficient on a model for model basis - the new version of my car has airbags, better crash, climate control, more loudspeakers, a bigger engine, bigger tires, electric windows, maybe an electric seat, etc etc etc, so in the real world I suspect its fuel consumption is only a fraction better. It is a much better car, but that is not quite the point.

Cradle to grae analysis is incredibly difficult to do well, it is very easy to bias the result by your prejudices, witness the recent one that demonstrated that a Hummer was greener than a Prius.

Perhaps 1% of the money currently being wasted on climate change analysis could usefully be diverted towards answering your question. Fat chance.





Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[SnTMan]

"I'd like to bet that these cars will be used till they literally fall apart."

Much like the Yugo

Regards,

Mike

 

[msquared48]

M Prius is white as is my 454 Suburban...

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering

 

[corus]

The maximum speed of the car is 65 mph, and that's probably with a tail wind too. As a town car though, it's no doubt a winner. I've seen other cars that look equally perilous (such as the Smart car

http://www.smart.com)

but then I wouldn't drive one of them down a motorway either. Given that the price of one of these is about the same as the annual depreciation of a family car, then presumably you could just buy a new one each year. At last, the disposable car!

For safety on the roads though, I've always advocated having a huge spike coming from the steering wheel aimed at the centre of your chest. Might make the boy racers and BMW drivers think twice about being 2 foot from your back-side going down the motorway when I slam the brakes on.

corus

 

[SomptingGuy]

I wonder how much it would cost with the typical creature comforts required by the US market: auto transmission, power steering, air con, big stereo, bazilliions of air bags, "fog" lights, walnut dash, etc... Probably a bit more than $2500.

- Steve

 

[davefitz]

The main impact of the new Tata car is that it will generate a huge new demand for gasoline , and the new equilibrium point for oil will increase accordingly.

As for all new types of cars with fantastic fuel mileage, their use will totally scramble the means for financing road repair and construction, which basically explains the new propsoal to increase the US fuel gas tax by another $0.40 / gal. Some sort of add'l registration fee would likely need to be added to electric cars that primarily run on battery charge- although they still use the roads, they don't pay for them via the fuel tax.

When it comes to avoiding taxes, there is no free lunch- last weeks paper had an article about another greenie that was fined megabuck for running his diesel on french fry oil without paying the fuel use tax.

 

[YoungTurk]

davefitz hit the nail squarely on the head. Here comes a tidal wave of demand for gasoline. Sales of this or a similar vehicle to the masses in India and China will deplete oil reserves faster than already projected. Regardless of whether or not we've hit peak oil already, I predict $5/gallon gasoline within 5 years. Now thats what I call the future of engineering.

 

[csd72]

davefitz,

I think that increasing the gas tax is something that should definately be done in the USA, at the moment it is not sufficient to cover all the costs associated with vehicle use. It is also the only way to encourage drivers to buy fuel efficient cars.

Youngturk,

The oil reserves are only an issue because the USA has used so much of it! It is a bit selfish to complain when other countries want to use their share.

 

[YoungTurk]

Do you see any actual complaint in my post? Its a bit presumptive to call my prediction a complaint. I simply stated my opinion of the impact of such mass produced technology on oil supply.

 

[csd72]

sorry

 

[corus]

Considering inflation over the years gas (or petrol as it's properly called) is the cheapest it's ever been, and probably will still be even with any increase in taxataion.

Personally I think the future is in the compressed air car (

http://www.theaircar.com/).

As well as being 'green' it also has the advantage that when it runs out of air then you can hook your mother-in-law up in the back seat and tell her to blow. Should keep the old bag quiet for a while.

corus

 

[YoungTurk]

Your inflation claim didn't ring true, so I looked. Sorry, but as an engineer I've learned to fact check. I find:

http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/18/news/economy/gas_prices/index.htm

and

http://www.inflationdata.com/inflation/images/charts/Oil/Gasoline_inflation_chart.htm

Seems the overall trend is downward since 1980, HOWEVER, price spikes since 2005 have created parity with prices (inflation adjusted) at that point, which I believe was the high water mark for adjusted gas prices.

A gas price increase from $3 to $5 over five years requires an average increase of 10-11% per year, well and above inflation. Given current record inflation adjusted gas prices, $5 in 2013 would be greatly exceed any previous inflation adjusted gas prices, which is liable to create some serious economic impact.

 

[msquared48]

I do not think that it will be 5 years for $5/gallon gas. I think that it should be here by the end of this year due to the weakness of the dollar, the demand of India and China, the wars, and our current economic and foreign policies that are further weakening the dollar.

As the price of gas goes up, in theory the demand should drop, not factoring in the effects of India and China. Should be interesting to watch.

Mike McCann
McCann Engineering