$2500 Car 10

[KENAT]

Corus & YoungTurk, might help if you said which country you're talking about, I think Turk that may be part of the confusion.

In the UK, the price of the oil is a relatively small proportion of the total cost of petrol/gas at the pump, the rest is tax. So while prices there have gone up due to oil price increses as a % of total cost it's a lot less than in the US.

Let me put it this way. Gas prices at the pump in the UK haven't roughly double over the last 4 years like they have in the US (at least my part).

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[csd72]

$5 per gallon is more like what people should be paying in the US, $6 would be closer to the mark.

I love my long car trips, but ....

 

[YoungTurk]

Very true, talking about the USA for my part. I realize our gas prices dont always move in lock step with European or other regions, especially due to the current currency debacle. I would, however, expect trending to be similar and the effects of increased Asian demand to be worldwide.

 

[KENAT]

Look at figure 2 on the link.

http://www.vtpi.org/tdm/tdm17.htm

It's a bit old and I haven't checked its accuracy but it gives some idea. Obviously the price of oil increases recently make the blue portion a lot bigger now than in 2004 but it still gives some idea of the ratio of tax.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

 

[Gymmeh]

I paid a 1.25 EUR per liter last friday in Austria

1.25x 3.8 = 4.75EUR X(1 EUR = 1.46696 USD) =6.96808 USD/Gal

Thats a kick to the nuts....

 

[cranky108]

So why are you paying more $2500 for a car in the US? Maybe it's a streach for some of you to purchase a used car, but looking at the used car lists there are plenty of good cars for $2500 or less. And the benifit is they are here, and made of real steel.

 

[csd72]

good link kenat

 

[Ussuri]

I filled my car up with Diesel today at £1.09 per litre. Which, assuming i did the conversion properly, is $8.11 per US gallon. Austria seems cheap.

by the way is "gas" the name for both petrol and diesel?

 

[YoungTurk]

Great link, Kenat, a star.

In the US at least we say gas meaning gasoline or petrol and refer to diesel as diesel. Current prices here in Wisconsin are about $3.10 gas (minimum octane/regular) and $3.40 diesel. Are you in the UK Ussuri?

 

[Gymmeh]

gas is petrol, benzin
Diesel is Diesel, NAFTA

 

[Sid7]

Official websites of the TATA Nano aka Indian People's Car

http://www.tatanano.com/tatamotors/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

http://www.tatamotors.com/our_world/press_releases.php?ID=340&action=Pull

msquared48

Its genuine and truely Indian Brand. Tata's have last year bought Corus. And this is not meant for the US market, obviously.

jmw

Its TATA and not Tatra.

davefitz

I do not agree on huge increase in demand. Basicaly if this car is owned it will be for the basic need of transportation for a middle and lower class family. So in fact this car may replace a two wheeler used for the same purpose. And given the manufacturing capacity (just 250 000 in first two years) I doubt one will see "huge" increase as you say.
And I was reading somewhere and some analyst has said that the company has to wait minimum for two years to break even or more to see profits.
regards.
Siddharth.


Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[YoungTurk]

I'd agree that 250,000 cars will not generate a huge demand for gasoline, at least not by themselves. But it is part of a burgeoning low price car market, and a car at this price point will generate competition for to lowest dollar practical vehicle. That competition, and resulting flood of new customers into the car market will generate the wave of demand.

Remember, Ford didn't invent the car, he just invented the first mass produced car. Only 750 Model A's were produced in 1903-1904. 70,000 Model Ts were sold in 1911.

In 2006 16 million new automobiles were sold in the USA, 15 million in Western Europe, 7 million in China [2] and 2 million in India.

(Referenced Wikipedia)

How long before Asia overtakes America?

 

[Sid7]

YoungTurk

Competition in the global market is inevitable and so the affordable prices as a result. So would you be happy to see the car prices lowered or not?

Very soon Asia can overtake as soon as the sales in USA or Western EU drops to half(as per the ref you gave). I couldnt understand your take on this.

1 person x more than 1 car = luxury
1 family x 1 car = necessity

with this equation one can understand the sales trend you have explained.

Regards

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[WGJ]

Siddarths post, the issues about the Nano replacing two wheelers and the essential need for transport, rather than essential+gadgets+gizmos+luxury are not understood by many.

When the imperative is to be able to transport yourself and family, the most basic, reliable means is what will sell.

The Model T has been mentioned, in the UK it was probably the Austin Seven. Even in their time, these vehicles would be criticised as crude and unrefined -- just as many criticise the Nano, but they sold. Why, because transportation was the need. To get about. To move people. To move things.

Bill

 

[moltenmetal]

Ladas sold in Canada- there's always a market for the very cheapest product you can buy, regardless how poorly made. It may not last, though, and you presume the thing will meet the safety standards and other regs on North American roads. Canada's ZENN low-speed electricl car isn't permissible to drive on Canadian streets for instance.

 

[Sid7]

WGJ,

Thanks for your write up, may be I wasnt able to put the message clearly. I remember the days when I was very young and we four, my dad, mother, my elder brother and myself used to travel on a scooter. Its still the same in India. Its fun rather.

There may be a debate on how much safety is safe and same time practical/economical? Even Princess Diana had to suffer with the high tech vehicle she was in during the accident. I doubt if anyone can make human life or other being, safe from everything.
regards

Below is the excerpt fromt the interview of Mr Ratan Tata, Chairman of Tata Group.

http://www.tata.com/0_media/features/interviews/20080110_one_lakh_car.htm

"The Tatas and you, in particular, are on the brink of realising a long-cherished ambition. Do you feel vindicated? Are you apprehensive?"

There has always been some sort of unconscious urge to do something for the people of India and transport has been an area of interest. As urbanisation gathers pace, personal transport has become a big issue, especially since mass transport is often not available or is of poor quality. Two-wheelers — with the father driving, the elder child standing in front and the wife behind holding a baby — is very much the norm in this country. In that form two-wheelers are a relatively unsafe mode of transporting a family. The two-wheeler image is what got me thinking that we needed to create a safer form of transport.







Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[jmw]

Kenat, good link.
The fig 2 commentary says:

This suggests that fuel taxes could increase significantly without reducing North American economic competitiveness.

This is quite obviously a nonsense.
If the only factor affecting economic competitiveness were fuel costs it could be true. But if it were true then the other countries quoted would have had to take action to restore their own competitiveness. Indeed, market forces would have forced a levelling out of fuel prices within western economies some decades ago.

Fig 3 tells a story that says where you have long distances to drive, high tax burdens cannot be sustained. It is less about economic competitiveness probably than domestic driving issues.

Sid7:

Competition in the global market is inevitable and so the affordable prices as a result. So would you be happy to see the car prices lowered or not?

Ah but it isn't a global market, is it?

Note how standards vary from one country to another such that the Car you buyin the Uk has a different set of brakes, lights etc than the version you buy in the US and look what the US lighting requirements did to the E-type design.

Each market enjoys some protection and the success of Japan over the years in blocking foreign car sales while selling its own cars worldwide shows how the game can be played.

I suspect there is no danger of the Tata (thanks Sid7) being sold into any of the "protected" markets any time soon. Anyway, if this car did reach the UK, say, then you can bet it would carry at least a £7-8k price tag.

This is a car for the domestic market. It should be judged as such.
It must represent a significant advance on all those heavy Morris Oxfords, Cambridges etc with their primitive brakes and well suited to the domestic market in terms of cost of ownership, maintenance etc..
I hesitate to suggest it will create a vast expansion in fuel use when in fact it may displace some old and inefficient gas guzzling museum pieces.

I also doubt that a significant proportion of the road system would sustain high speed driving or if it did, safety might probably be expected to be better than currently, except that driving would appear to be conducted with greater regard for karma than hydraulic dual circuit power assisted disc brakes or whether they work or not (this is the only country in the world where my wife managed to have a proper wreck, and woke up in hospital as a result, despite the competition from a fair selection of the East Block countries, Turkey, Iran and Iraq. She had made the drive from Berlin in a VW Thing. Pretty adventurous huh? or just her lousy map reading and she was really headed for Potsdam? I dare not ask, this was before we met.)

PS,
Corus,
Smart cars not for you?
Come on, these are a funky Mercedes built in Munich aren't they? and they fairly zip along the motorways (at above the legal limit).
I quite like them but I am not sure I'd fit in one and I suspect that I'd destroy the Power to weight ratio anyway.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Sid7]

jmw

Thanks jmw for the post. Well this car aint aimed at global market. And my comment is in particular response to YoungTurk's equivalent us dollar car price statement.



Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.

 

[WGJ]

Siddharth
I've seen a few items on other sites discussing the Nano. A whole lot of people in 'the west' just don't get it, as we say.


Bill

 

[Sid7]

WGJ

Only the time would prove the worthiness of a creative techonological economic means of transport from a committed business group to fulfil the promise made to the common public.

IMHO, Tata is an invaluable heritage to India and many Indians would trust in their effort without doubt.

Best regards.

Siddharth
These are my personal views/opinions and not of my employer's.