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$2500 Car 10
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I heard that Tata is thinking of buying Jaguar (haven't heard about Rover).
Maybe then, the price of Jags will also come down! ;-)
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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Maybe then, the price of Jags will also come down! ;-)
"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?
Tata is the Ford preferred purchaser of both the Jaguar and Land Rover (NOT Rover) businesses.
Negotiations have, apparently, entered a final stage.
Ford initally said that a final bidder was going to be nominated last October, so the process is a couple of months later than originally set.
Interestingly, a review of the Tata website reveals the dealership cover that Tata has. Nothing is shown for the USA, so, if the purchase goes through, Tata will get a small, but ready-made, dealer network in critical areas of the US via existing Jag & LR outlets, I presume.
US and European business should also acjknowledge that the Nano is but one facet of Tatas empire which, I believe already produces a significant volume of commercial vehicles in addition to other passenger cars and pickups.
Bill
Negotiations have, apparently, entered a final stage.
Ford initally said that a final bidder was going to be nominated last October, so the process is a couple of months later than originally set.
Interestingly, a review of the Tata website reveals the dealership cover that Tata has. Nothing is shown for the USA, so, if the purchase goes through, Tata will get a small, but ready-made, dealer network in critical areas of the US via existing Jag & LR outlets, I presume.
US and European business should also acjknowledge that the Nano is but one facet of Tatas empire which, I believe already produces a significant volume of commercial vehicles in addition to other passenger cars and pickups.
Bill
Sid7,
I don't really have a "take" except that I believe there will be drastic increases in the number of cars on Asian roads and a correlated increase in demand for gasoline (and raw materials). Whether or not I'm happy to see these cheap cars available isn't really relevant. Its not necessary to discuss approval or disapproval of a trend to predict or identify it. I just think that is "where engineering is going in the next 5 years," like the forum says.
That being said, my opinion is that I'd like to see a global reduction in demand for fossil fuels. And although western countries certainly have used more than our fair share, it would seem high population density Asian countries without a developed automobile system are the preferred place to change the paradigm of transportation. Unfortunately, social and economic forces (including my own) do not always allow the theoretical best situation. (Yes I'm a commuter).
JMW puts it quite well as to the significant differences between North American and European or Asian transportation realities. Simply said, our economy is built around the ability to transport goods and labor over large distances cheaply. I've met European tourists baffled at the idea that they can't do a driving tour of the US on a one or two week vacation.
I don't really have a "take" except that I believe there will be drastic increases in the number of cars on Asian roads and a correlated increase in demand for gasoline (and raw materials). Whether or not I'm happy to see these cheap cars available isn't really relevant. Its not necessary to discuss approval or disapproval of a trend to predict or identify it. I just think that is "where engineering is going in the next 5 years," like the forum says.
That being said, my opinion is that I'd like to see a global reduction in demand for fossil fuels. And although western countries certainly have used more than our fair share, it would seem high population density Asian countries without a developed automobile system are the preferred place to change the paradigm of transportation. Unfortunately, social and economic forces (including my own) do not always allow the theoretical best situation. (Yes I'm a commuter).
JMW puts it quite well as to the significant differences between North American and European or Asian transportation realities. Simply said, our economy is built around the ability to transport goods and labor over large distances cheaply. I've met European tourists baffled at the idea that they can't do a driving tour of the US on a one or two week vacation.
What is amazing is the number of commuters there are, and the number of communities that don't have mass transportation, so cars are required in most of the US.
From what I've seen outside the US, there are many places where a car is not required. But the lowering of the cost of a car will increase the number of commuers in those countries.
This will lead to many problems unforseen by most of the population. And it is our place to look at those issues and develop new ideas.
The cheep car is a tool, which will become a problem, as it's use will be to cover another problem. The lack of good mass transporation.
I rode the trains in Newark once, but for the cost, I would probally drive if I lived there.
From what I've seen outside the US, there are many places where a car is not required. But the lowering of the cost of a car will increase the number of commuers in those countries.
This will lead to many problems unforseen by most of the population. And it is our place to look at those issues and develop new ideas.
The cheep car is a tool, which will become a problem, as it's use will be to cover another problem. The lack of good mass transporation.
I rode the trains in Newark once, but for the cost, I would probally drive if I lived there.
SomptingGuy
Automotive
Regarding the cost of transport...
It would cost me c. £80 (or more) to drive to my mother's house and back. A coach costs less than £50. That's £30 of booze for the trip
- Steve
It would cost me c. £80 (or more) to drive to my mother's house and back. A coach costs less than £50. That's £30 of booze for the trip
- Steve
I don't know how much that is. But my mother would be preaty set off if I showed up at her house half drunk.
Besides the drive to my mother's house is 5 hours. Consiter that there are no passenger trains, or busses here. A plane would take several connections and take much longer.
And I'm back to my point of lack of good mass transportation.
So here I am with a car valued at about $2500, and with 150000 miles on it, and an EPA estimated 30 MPG rating.
Besides the drive to my mother's house is 5 hours. Consiter that there are no passenger trains, or busses here. A plane would take several connections and take much longer.
And I'm back to my point of lack of good mass transportation.
So here I am with a car valued at about $2500, and with 150000 miles on it, and an EPA estimated 30 MPG rating.
SomptingGuy
Automotive
... only joking. My point is that fuel taxes here (and the basic automotive ownership costs) make train/coach travel viable for the single traveller.
- Steve
- Steve
DonPhillips
Structural
I remember reading stories and watching documentaries about the auto industry buying bus and train lines in the 40's, 50's, and 60's to shut them down. Interurban trains would be wonderful - again. It will be decades before the US begins to have decent mass transit.
I bought a full sized pickup last spring when my old job required I carry an extension ladder from time to time. Now I wish I had a little car to get around.
Don Phillips
I bought a full sized pickup last spring when my old job required I carry an extension ladder from time to time. Now I wish I had a little car to get around.
Don Phillips
The trouble is most public transport is geared to the wrong objectives and delivers the wrong services to the wrong people. I don't want my tax money to subsidise some stock broker's train fairs from his rural retreat to his job in the city. Many people don't want a public transport system that makes it easier for the criminals to expand their activities from the poor inner cities to the suburban and rural areas.
However, it isn't long distance public transport that we need to sort out.
It isn't the connection between one city and the next we need to worry about but local travel, journeys of a mile or two.
The real focus should be on local loops. All those short distance journeys from home to the shops etc. If you want to tackle that then you could make a serious dent in the pollution problems.
It isn't easy to get people out of their cars when they travel long distances but it should be possible to target the short journeys and these make up a substantial proportion of all car use... one indicator is in the accidents statistics which show most accidents happen within a mile or two of home.... high frequency short journeys, least fuel efficient and most polluting.
But most public transport entails transient services that pass through and by and not a local loop only service. If we can justify the tax spend on some of the things they waste money on then we can afford it here. We need electric buses every 5-10 minute, free and with a boarding platform for rapid getting on and off.
Create a local service that links all the main nodes and make it more convenient than the car. Bus lanes, sensor controlled lights, priority for buses and traffic behaviour as per school buses.
Here's a target:
max 5 minutes walk, max 5 minute wait and max 5 minute journey.
Use planning laws to cut down on superstore parking allowances. Instead of them bribing their way to planning permission with new sports centres and fact finding tours for the local councillors, make them provide minimum level local bus buses.
JMW
However, it isn't long distance public transport that we need to sort out.
It isn't the connection between one city and the next we need to worry about but local travel, journeys of a mile or two.
The real focus should be on local loops. All those short distance journeys from home to the shops etc. If you want to tackle that then you could make a serious dent in the pollution problems.
It isn't easy to get people out of their cars when they travel long distances but it should be possible to target the short journeys and these make up a substantial proportion of all car use... one indicator is in the accidents statistics which show most accidents happen within a mile or two of home.... high frequency short journeys, least fuel efficient and most polluting.
But most public transport entails transient services that pass through and by and not a local loop only service. If we can justify the tax spend on some of the things they waste money on then we can afford it here. We need electric buses every 5-10 minute, free and with a boarding platform for rapid getting on and off.
Create a local service that links all the main nodes and make it more convenient than the car. Bus lanes, sensor controlled lights, priority for buses and traffic behaviour as per school buses.
Here's a target:
max 5 minutes walk, max 5 minute wait and max 5 minute journey.
Use planning laws to cut down on superstore parking allowances. Instead of them bribing their way to planning permission with new sports centres and fact finding tours for the local councillors, make them provide minimum level local bus buses.
JMW
I can see that for travel to and from work. But for a trip to a store, any store, how do you manage numbers of bags?
Years ago I lived 3 blocks from a grocery store, and they were not happy with there carts leaving there parking lot.
An inexpencive rechargable car would work well here.
But I see only the gas car that fits that description.
There is a good point I see here; why can't mass transit be based somewhat around school transport?
Years ago I lived 3 blocks from a grocery store, and they were not happy with there carts leaving there parking lot.
An inexpencive rechargable car would work well here.
But I see only the gas car that fits that description.
There is a good point I see here; why can't mass transit be based somewhat around school transport?
GregLocock
Automotive
Well, the little old ladies I see have shopping trolleys of their own. Maybe there would be a market for a collapsible shopping trolley.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Cheers
Greg Locock
SIG
lease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.I have to laugh at jmw, opening...
The city I live in was going to get major money 15 yrs ago to extend the subway, but the rich suburban people did not want (There are recordings of the town hall meets with very bad words on them) poor people taking the train to the suburbs and steeling stuff...
I have to laugh because of the logic, so someone is going to take a train, steel your TV, then carry it to the train and ride the train with a TV….and manage to avoid the cops, train ticketing people, all the video cameras at the stations.
Ironically, most of the current crime in my city has been caused by suburban Anglo-Saxon upper middle class teens….
The city I live in was going to get major money 15 yrs ago to extend the subway, but the rich suburban people did not want (There are recordings of the town hall meets with very bad words on them) poor people taking the train to the suburbs and steeling stuff...
I have to laugh because of the logic, so someone is going to take a train, steel your TV, then carry it to the train and ride the train with a TV….and manage to avoid the cops, train ticketing people, all the video cameras at the stations.
Ironically, most of the current crime in my city has been caused by suburban Anglo-Saxon upper middle class teens….
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