A coming engineering shortage ? ---- Who agrees ? 86

[MJCronin]

A recent article says that there will be an acute shortage ... particularly in the electrical field !!!

http://www.csemag.com/single-articl...hortage/7b350ef419c231a9f82abc6c8bd8fac4.html

Who agrees ???

Who strongly disagrees ???

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[IRstuff]

What's worse is if you can think of the objections and reasons for failure faster than the proposer can even complete their presentation. For some peculiar reason, they think that we are not only negative, but we're close minded.


TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[lacajun]

ScottyUK, no we don't help our cause much.

We do see a lot others don't but, even when they do see things correctly, we often shoot holes in their ideas and them.


Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter

 

[IRstuff]

"We do see a lot others don't but, even when they do see things correctly, we often shoot holes in their ideas and them."

Yeah, BTDT; it works great with SWMBO ;-)

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[lacajun]

IRstuff, are you still surprised to be alive?

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter

 

[3DDave]

I came across a 'brain storming' session white board that had not been erased. It was apparently from the new-grad bunch being groomed to meet the needs of the Fearless Leader**. One of the entries was "Gundam Suit." Nothing like introducing Japanese Anime as a possible future product. The old guys might have been negative about that sort of idea.

One thing that I've considered in such things is that the person who is floating an idea has never asked the basis questions.

1) Why has no one else thought of this?
2) What do I know that no one else does?

As long as the answers relate to corporate inertia or being the first to the party then there's a chance to succeed. Apple computer, for example, benefited greatly from IBM's inertia and Google was the first to understand the page-rank concept.

But what kills me is when someone is basically saying they are so smart that they alone, with no research at all, have concluded that some idea is the best idea. And I find the reason they think they are so smart is they have done nothing to build a basis of comparison.

**The management guy who was leading this also led a project that 3 of 3 engineers said was a bad idea and forced me to use a mechanism I was told later had failed in a prototype stage but they didn't pass that information along to me before demanding I design using it. What was interesting is the core component was purchased from a company that had motive to design a system just like the management guy was going for, but he failed to ask either question. As soon as it was all assembled, it immediately failed and they threw 3-4 years worth of my salary in the garbage and pretended it didn't happen.

I could have saved that company a lot of money by just not working on what the dreamers came up with.

 

[IRstuff]

"are you still surprised to be alive?"

My florist bill is rather high ;-)

We used to have a guy who was the gatekeeper for IR&D (independent research and development), always has two showstopper questions. When we first went to him for a new project, he'd ask, "Is anyone else doing this?" We answer "no," and he'd say, "then why do we want to be the first?" Next time around, he'd ask his same question, and we'd answer "sure, A and B are both pursuing it." He'd then say, "so why do we want to be doing the same?"

So, those are always good questions, "are we really the only people the universe to have thought of this?" and, "if this is really a good idea, why aren't there more people doing it?"

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[CWB1]

One of my pet peeves is a closely related cousin to Greg's "magical thinking" and seems to be the polar opposite and enemy of objective (some say negative) debate of a project's merits. I call it "powerpoint engineering" whereby someone with an engineering title, CAD suite, and usually some sort of basic analysis program that they do not actually understand makes a lot of pretty presentations that convince management they are going to make the company billions. They then enjoy many months/years being billed as a rising leader within the company and usually do their best to limit invitations to design reviews, other technical, and DFMEA discussions to prevent technical experts from attending. If the chief powerpoint engineer is in-house they often move to a sister company, division, or other distant department shortly before the recalls and warranty claims begin, and often do so with a raise or promotion. If the chief powerpoint engineer is good they also get an important executive to attach their name to the project so its eventual failure is guaranteed to quickly be explained away and forgotten. If the powerpoint engineer is an outside contractor we commonly call them a consultant, pay them 3x as much as necessary, give them 5x as much time to work, and usually have little/no recourse for substandard work and lack of results. Not to suggest all consultants are that bad, but I've come across enough in aerospace and automotive that whenever the word is mentioned I admittedly get a bit cheeky and counter with suggesting more interns or junior engineers be hired instead. I believe this is where the many jokes and stereotypes about PEs stem from, and why I question the long term viability of keeping the current licensing system. In many regards PEs are starting to go the way of the union journeyman's card as a serious sign of incompetence creating distrust despite being intended to do the opposite.

 

[aap2]

One of my pet peeves is a closely related cousin to Greg's "magical thinking" and seems to be the polar opposite and enemy of objective (some say negative) debate of a project's merits. I call it "powerpoint engineering" whereby someone with an engineering title, CAD suite, and usually some sort of basic analysis program that they do not actually understand makes a lot of pretty presentations that convince management they are going to make the company billions. They then enjoy many months/years being billed as a rising leader within the company and usually do their best to limit invitations to design reviews, other technical, and DFMEA discussions to prevent technical experts from attending. If the chief powerpoint engineer is in-house they often move to a sister company, division, or other distant department shortly before the recalls and warranty claims begin, and often do so with a raise or promotion. If the chief powerpoint engineer is good they also get an important executive to attach their name to the project so its eventual failure is guaranteed to quickly be explained away and forgotten. If the powerpoint engineer is an outside contractor we commonly call them a consultant, pay them 3x as much as necessary, give them 5x as much time to work, and usually have little/no recourse for substandard work and lack of results

Tone the sarcasm down a little. Tell us what really happened.

 

[CWB1]

Plazma, there was nothing in that post intended to be sarcastic. My response to outside hiring is a bit facetious but also very serious. I am not discussing an isolated incident but quite a few that I have witnessed at several large corporations and after discussing with peers have come to realize is common occurrence. I have no problem with internal subject matter experts with well-proven history and experience taking charge of their area of expertise nor competent outside help, but there are many inexperienced phonies in industry as well that are mistakenly put into positions of significant responsibility.

One good example was my last employer outsourcing the design of a new variety of widget rather than hiring internally. The firm hired had no experience in that area and after a few initial concept reviews it became painfully obvious their analysis was flawed. It became a "us vs them" scenario but because management had pitched their involvement as beneficial and contracts signed, internal experts were excluded and their opinions were dismissed, and the powerpoint engineers continued unabated. More than a year later the predicted project failure occurred and the company had no recourse. The failure was swept under the rug as being due to insurmountable issues when in reality it failed due to incompetent engineering. Others may disagree, but I am very careful to take unsupervised design responsibility only on things which I have experience with as I view it unethical to work outside my area of experience. Garbage in and a pretty picture out does not make a successful test, and many things cannot be learned except by experience testing what works and what does not. If I was risking only my own money and time that would be one thing, however doing so for an employer or client is quite another.

 

[spraytechnology]

It is rather known fact in particular in large organizations, that incompetent people get " promoted up" to get rid of them.

Often the attempt is to promote them in a role they cannot make much damage, not always the case.....

 

[cranky108]

Don't you hate the know it all, because you can't teach him anything.

But often real learning happens when he has to fix his own mistakes.

Shortages happen when companies are not willing to create training positions. There may not be a shortage of newbees, but there will be a shortage of knowing olders soon enough.

 

[HamburgerHelper]

The best engineer I have met was beyond arrogant. I don't think anyone taught him anything. He was too prideful to not just figure out himself or to fail. I don't know how much stuff he screwed up but I don't think it was much. He thought he knew everything and went off with another guy to start a consulting company. It worked out for him so maybe he did.

 

[aap2]

I wonder if this topic can be tied to HR non-sense?

God made the integers, all else is the work of man. - Leopold Kroenecker

 

[IRstuff]

No, this goes beyond HR, as exemplified by our president's latest immigration proposal; obviously some birdies whispered in his ear that there is a shortage of English-speaking skilled labor in the US.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[HCBFlash]

amp/spectrum.ieee.org/riskfactor/at-work/tech-careers/exposing-the-roots-of-the-perpetual-stem-crisis-.amp.html

I don't think I'm going to run out and snap up the hard-copy, mostly because I don't have access to the waiting rooms or parlours where it would be best skillfully and artistically placed.

(If this shows up as shouting, forgive my less-than mastery of Chrome in the real world)

.

(Me,,,wrong? ...aw, just fine-tuning my sarcasm!)

 

[tinasingh]

I agree with you that nowadays there will be a shortage o engineering students. It's because of the opening of low-quality engineering college and because of this students are jobless. I was also a student and I completed my graduation from best Nagpur engineering colleges and currently, I am working at MNC. The only matter is where you graduate.

 

[davefitz]

Back to the original posted question, it is possible that the imminent breakout in AI and expert systems will reduce the need for many engineers, and cause the same "increase in productivity" ( read- increase in unemployment) as occurred with the widespread increase in usse of the PC and commercial software.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

 

[Tunalover]

Corporations have been spinning that old "STEM shortage" fairy tale for decades because it increases the number or people in the market so they can pay them less. It's all in Law of Supply and Demand. There are too many new grads today who can't find jobs. With a STEM shortage, how can that be?!

Nowadays if a new grad has completed no internships and graduates with less-than-stellar grades, he can be unemployed for a VERY long time after graduation. But the "human resources" people who hire them think not about such human issues as students who have the will but not the way! Financially-independent students who have to work, beg, and borrow their way through school inevitably work full-time in the summers and part-time each semester. In summers they may be forced to work higher-paying jobs than those internships. Of course they have less time to devote to studying as their fully-funded competitors so they get lower grades (and a LOT of stress!). But HR people don't care about such things and routinely pass them by due to their unbreakable hiring requirements.



H. Bruce Jackson
ElectroMechanical Product Development
UMD 1984
UCF 1993

 

[IRstuff]

The cited article is an open item:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/riskfacto...osing-the-roots-of-the-perpetual-stem-crisis-

"Nowadays if a new grad has completed no internships and graduates with less-than-stellar grades, he can be unemployed for a VERY long time after graduation. "
This seems to be the non sine qua of today's college student school year, my own kind among them, and has now become a crisis of its own, because so many students now are looking for internships from the start of the school year that they getting harder and harder to find. It's to the point where it's Labor Day, and the kids are getting harassed about not having found an internship for the coming summer, AND, most of the good internships are mostly scooped up by October.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[WARose]

My advice to any engineering student would be to get as much experience via internships as possible.

That being said, I'm not so sure a hiring manager should consider that a make or break deal. I haven't noticed much of a difference between ones that have or have not done a internship (except maybe CAD skills). I've seen graduates who have done some really good research....that should be a factor as well.