A coming engineering shortage ? ---- Who agrees ? 86

[MJCronin]

A recent article says that there will be an acute shortage ... particularly in the electrical field !!!

http://www.csemag.com/single-articl...hortage/7b350ef419c231a9f82abc6c8bd8fac4.html

Who agrees ???

Who strongly disagrees ???

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[moltenmetal]

IRStuff, you've just proven my point. Nanotechnology is a good specialization for a masters or PhD level student, after a degree in chemical, mechanical or perhaps electrical engineering.

I can tell you that my alma mater struggles to find co-op jobs for their nanite undergrads, and we see many former nanites transferring back into chemical after a few terms after waking up and smelling the cat food.

 

[IRstuff]

Aren't going to see too many PhD's being CAD jockeys.

Our efforts in quantum dots were all purely engineering aspects of how to disperse them covertly and track them, well within our lowly Bachelor's degree purview.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[spraytechnology]

Another spin here is immigration. If we look at Canada, Australia New Zealand and US, the first 3 have a rather liberal policy that brings in an oversupply of engineers and other professionals well and above the local needs. In US where the policy is restricted it does not really have an impact on supply.

 

[spraytechnology]

From time to time I get emails from recruiters I do not know or do not remember ever contacting.
Nevertheless the note had a positive spin:

"It’s pretty obvious, your time is now! Positions are hard to fill, salaries are on the increase and you want to make sure that you do not miss the opportunity to position yourself in the right role, with the right salary and the right future career prospects so you can also benefit and prosper over this next boom period. How you do this, is where it gets a little complex - if you are in a role now where you really feel that the role equals the rewards, good for you, however if you have been in a role for a while with no salary or career review, you should be questioning your employers commitment to you. "

We are all very well aware that the Australian Construction Industry is on the precipice of an unprecedented period of significant growth in NSW/Victoria and SA in delivering Road/Tunnel/Rail Transport infrastructure Projects over the next decade. It is exciting that we are in one of the key industry sectors along with the Health (health and aging population), Wealth (Management), Logistics, Tourism and Education that is going to drive the economy for the next 10 years or so.

When it comes to staff recruitment and retention, this Transport Infrastructure boom is going to bring some significant challenges to Engineering and Construction Groups of all sizes, as experienced previously in the mining and oil and gas boom. .....already seeing talent shortages growing already in many areas such as PM (especially RMS experienced), SPE-PE and Supervisors (where have they all gone?). I have recruited specifically in this sector for 30 years and I predict that the next 1-3 years will be the most challenging period ever when it comes to Civil Construction recruitment as there seems to be too much work to do with too few resources to deliver. It is also important to remember that Australia is not the only Country with this issue, as Globally the Construction sector is predicted to grow by 85% to $15.5 trillion by 2030 so the usual recruitment drives to the UK, RSA and UAE will not deliver the same successful outcomes as was achieved previously.

So what does this mean for you as an extremely valuable, scarce and local individual with a strong career to date and demonstrated experience delivering Transport Infrastructure Projects?

It’s pretty obvious, your time is now! Positions are hard to fill, salaries are on the increase and you want to make sure that you do not miss the opportunity to position yourself in the right role, with the right salary and the right future career prospects so you can also benefit and prosper over this next boom period. How you do this, is where it gets a little complex - if you are in a role now where you really feel that the role equals the rewards, good for you, however if you have been in a role for a while with no salary or career review, you should be questioning your employers commitment to you.

This is a hard and challenging industry with long hours, high pressures and expectations and all under tough and demanding circumstances so it is important that you feel comfortable that you are being acknowledged and looked after by your employer, and if you aren’t - there are plenty of opportunities out there for you!

 

[MFJewell]

If we look at Canada, Australia New Zealand and US, the first 3 have a rather liberal policy that brings in an oversupply of engineers and other professionals well and above the local needs. In US where the policy is restricted it does not really have an impact on supply.

Have you been to the US? We have TONS of foreign engineers (among other STEM and health related professions). When I was in college, at least 50% of my class was foreign students. Most of them stay here after graduating. One of my current colleagues used to work at one of the largest oil and gas companies in the US. When he was there, there was a group of engineers known as the Venezuelan mafia. The company would advertise engineering positions with low salaries to avoid local candidates. Then they would claim that they couldn't find suitable candidates and use visa programs to bring in guys from Venezuela at 50% or less or normal US salary ($30-40K a year).

 

[CWB1]

Agreed, American industry is rather silly with foreign labor here and not just younger ones. At a former employer I became very friendly with the large contingent of "Chinese Canadians." These fellas were older 40s and 50-something Chinese who became Canadian citizens but worked in the US. I don't recall specifics but apparently Canada is very welcoming to older professionals with citizenship and it got them around the various visa and low wage concerns.

 

[spraytechnology]

MFJewell, yes I worked in the States for few years, long ago, but my impression was that overall engineering firms were not to keen on visa immigration sponsorship, had plenty of applicants and that many foreign engineers end up in academia for far less competitive rates.

 

[MFJewell]

That may have been the case a while ago, but globalization has put an end to that. Companies are trying to cut to the bone to be cost competitive here and some companies will do whatever they can to achieve that.

 

[IRstuff]

"overall engineering firms were not to keen on visa immigration sponsorship"

Not sure where that comes from. Companies all over have been clamoring for more H1Bs because of the supposed shortage of engineers. Not only are they getting the cream of the crop of foreign engineers, the H1B sponsorship pretty much locks them into a single job with little chance to job-hop to jack up their salaries.

But, it's not just engineering jobs that are like that. You don't see many white people working in the farms in the California central valley, do you? The same sorts of arguments show up there as well.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[spraytechnology]

IRstuff, things may have changed since, back than I was one of the foreign engineers, first as a student and than as an H1B and yes , "the H1B sponsorship pretty much locks them into a single job with little chance to job-hop to jack up their salaries" . In some ways I was unlucky, the employer dangled the " green card" sponsorship for a while, than management changed, tried to find an alternative employer with a new H1B but without success. The only avenue for me at the time was to continue as a PhD but found little incentive to that. On my return to Australia, but lucky this time, found a booming engineering market with an appreciating dollar making way more than I could dream in US. I had a good run, on interesting projects.

 

[DavidKite]

Please see [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.nsf.gov/statistics/2015/nsf15328/[/url]. The statistics is muddied with economics and psychology majors.

With this and other caveats; in 2013 All Scientist and Engineers (S&E)...
S&E Occupations: 5,749,000 (24.4%)
S&E Related Occupations: 7,439,000 (31.6%)
Non-S&E Related Occupations: 10,368,000 (44%)

 

[IRstuff]

Nevertheless, there's been a steady and continued demand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

The data shows a 223,000 increase in H1Bs since the recession.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[KENAT]

"Aren't going to see too many PhD's being CAD jockeys. "

You clearly didn't work at my (recently) former employer in the nanotechnology field.

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[CWB1]

It might be interesting to hear how someone defines "CAD jockey," at various employers I've heard that term applied in a number of ways and to everybody from draftsmen to engineers. I've also known (thankfully few) Phds who considered CAD/3d modeling well beneath their position and many others who used it daily in design and analysis. Personally, I only apply the term to "engineers" with design responsibility, little/no understanding of what they are designing, and whose only relevant skillset is CAD/modeling.

 

[WARose]

I've also known (thankfully few) Phds who considered CAD/3d modeling well beneath their position and many others who used it daily in design and analysis.

It's such a mixed message from company to company. I've worked at places where being good at CAD is almost mandatory for the engineers who work there......the next place, they will have a stroke if you even think about doing it. (Reserving it for drafters because of lower rates/hour.)

 

[DavidKite]

Nevertheless, there's been a steady and continued demand:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa

The data shows a 223,000 increase in H1Bs since the recession.

Ever-the-more, I believe H1B visa is lumped under the "Temporary visa holder" or "Immigrant" column. The original numbers I posted here appears to point to over 50% are in the technical related field. Perhaps a bit better than Ontario?

In terms of supply-and-demand, prices have been going up in this ASME/ASCE survey: [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.asme.org/getmedia/788e990f-99f5-4062-801c-d2ef0586b52d/32673_Engineering_Income_Salary_Survey.aspx[/url]

Exhibit 1 has a median salary increase of 4.7% into 2012. Sample size is ~11k
Exhibit 3 has matched sample median increase of 4.4%. into 2012. Sample size is a smaller (3551).

When compared to the ~1k organizations surveyed by Aon in 2013, the overall salary increase budget went up by 2.8% in 2012 (page3-NotTheSun).
[URL unfurl="true"]http://www.aon.com/attachments/human-capital-consulting/2012-2013_US_Salary_Increase_Survey_Highlights.pdf[/url]

I'm no economist/sociologist, this suggest to me there is currently no shortage in engineers.

 

[moltenmetal]

When OSPE examined the salary survey data- and in Ontario we have a very large, very broad and very useful survey going back at least three decades, which surveys both employees and employers- what we saw was that wage gains did not exceed economic growth for the engineering profession. There was certainly no evidence in the salary data of any kind of labour force shortage.

The most interesting finding was a comparison of the salaries of engineering grads working in engineering (about 30% of the total) versus those who worked outside the engineering profession (about 70% of the total). The median salary of the engineers was 20% higher than that of those eng grads not working as engineers. So if, on average, those people left the profession by choice, they did so against their economic interest.

The survey of 4th year students demonstrates that amongst Ontario engineering grads at least, the vast majority of those who do not gain entry to the profession after graduation do not do so out of choice, but rather by default because of a lack of opportunity.

 

[spraytechnology]

There is no labor shortage of engineers even good ones.Period
Politicians, universities, immigration, globalization etc disrupted the social balance on grand scale. Lets call it social engineering for what it is. It is all about control of resources and markets.

 

[ScottyUK]

There's a danger in quoting the results of surveys as evidence when the survey looks at something as diverse as 'engineering', or even at a broad-spectrum discipline like electrical or mechanical engineering. There are certainly niche sub-disciplines experiencing shortages, and I'm pretty sure there are also those with surpluses. Some shortages are long-term, others more transient.

As an overall profession there may well be a surplus over demand, but it is simply wrong to assume that the surplus applies uniformly throughout every discipline and every specialism.

 

[DavidKite]

There is no labor shortage of engineers even good ones.Period

There is no shortage of engineers;Semicolon
Neither is there a shortage of cars on the road. Prices of both cars and engineers have been steadily increasing despite increases in both population because the demand is strong. Things sure look different in Ontario where engineering wages appear stagnant. I agree with moltenmetal, there is glut there. The rising engineer's wage in the USA indicates there isn't a glut or shortage here. On average, our engineering labor market is humming along healthily.

You have a long list of conspirators for social engineering. Count me as one of them. I'm proud to be an engineer and would not discourage talented people from joining our ranks. Cooperation and healthy competition makes life more interesting than a quasi-monopoly.

There's a danger in quoting the results of surveys as evidence...

True, there are engineers who struggle to find a job for various reasons while others command astronomical salaries. Statistics provides only broad strokes. It is still superior to anecdotal evidence and more importantly keeps us from straying too far from reality with our personal bias.