Alaska Airlines flight forced to make an emergency landing... 82

[Murph 9000]

She's an administrator (currently NTSB Chair), rather than someone with a science and engineering background. She has been with the NTSB since 2018, seems to have bi-partisan support in Congress, and she's publicly called out Musk as the con man that he is (regarding "full self driving").

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

the interesting point on those videos of the brief was it was an ETOPS machine. Engines Turning or Pax Swimming as its unofficially an acronym for. Official extended twin operations for more than 60 mins from a diversion airfield.

And they were on about the infant carriage requirements. None FAA we have them strapped to the parent. using a secondary lap belt. And using car seats in the cabin is problematic.

 

[LittleInch]

Tug, I saw on another website, maybe Pprune, that the passengers supposed to be sitting there missed their connection. Quite possibly saved their lives. Even with seatbelt signs still on, many don't really tighten them and lap belts may not stop you getting "extracted", especially that window seat.

But there are now reports that the plane had "pressurisation issues" 3 or 4 times recently and Alaska decided not to fly that plane over water for extended periods.

Seems remarkable that the plug was only restrained in movement by 4 bolts that are difficult to check without removing the internal covers.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I presume those bolts were meant to be subject to lockwire and a dupe sign off after installation.

 

[Murph 9000]

In one of the 737 tech videos above, I think they were shown as having a castellated nut with cotter pin.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems to be a culture difference be it lock wire or cotter pin to do the same job.

BAe aircraft have miles of lockwire on nuts and the technicians perform art work with it.

Bit like the Rudder nuts that have been coming off they are meant to follow a duplicate inspection and sign off process. Be it cotter pin or wirelock.

Quite what the pro's and cons are between the two methods I really don't know. Although personal experience with lockwire involved a hellish amount of blood leakage getting up the experience curve on the very basic stuff never mind the "art work" they do on fuel injectors and the like.

 

[dik]

a precursor... and a known potential problem.

"Alaska Airlines placed restrictions on the Boeing plane involved in a dramatic mid-air blowout after pressurisation warnings in the days before Friday's incident, investigators say.

The jet had been prevented from making long-haul flights over water, said Jennifer Homendy of the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB).

The NTSB also says the missing section of plane has now been found - in the back garden of a Portland teacher."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67909417

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Its seems like most of the plug doors are fitted on N reg aircraft. Either Alaska or United.

Was surprised how few Max 9 there are outside the USA N reg.

 

[waross]

I wonder if the FAA directive is too narrow?
Apparently only planes with that configuration are being checked.
Being as there have been issues with missing bolts or nuts on the rudder assemblies of some planes and the strong suggestions that this is a missing bolt issue;
There may be strong suggestion that this is a bolt issue rather than a door plug issue.
That coupled with Boing's culture of profit over safety;
Maybe it's time to check every bolt on every plane.
It looks as if Boing never did.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[LittleInch]

Taken as snap shot form the excellent second video listed by 3D Dave. This is the top set of guides and pins. Lower ones go through the vertical spring guide and sleeve. Door is on the left so this is the upper right fixing.

Door very clearly goes up initially to move the main pins away and then looks to have a hinge assembly which allows the door to hinge down.

A number of comments on the video say that the door is commonly removed during interior fit out to allow for access for tools and equipment.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[waross]

So, no latch on the plug? (Too heavy?)
Just the interference bolts?

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[dik]

I guess it was never intended to be removed. I note that Boeing cautioned their customers about the excessive cost in 'returning' the plug to a normal doorway.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[3DDave]

The emergency exit door would fit fine, a drop in replacement. Boeing may not have installed the required wiring that includes a solenoid to prevent the door from being opened in flight like was done on an Airbus by a passenger not too long ago and putting in that wiring would be a considerable expense.

I still believe it requires the FAA to approve the conversion to allow the airline to make use of the additional emergency exit to increase the number of seats.

 

[LittleInch]

Well it must odds on that there simply no bolts installed on that particular air plane.

Even one bolt there would stop the door movement but seems inconceivable that a 3 month old plane could fail in another way.

Only way I can see is if the top bolts were there but the bottom ones not. Then there is a force trying to lift the door up, but hitting the top bolts which finally gave way?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Murph 9000]

I doubt that the springs are strong enough to shear the top bolts if the bottom bolts are missing. They should only be strong enough to counter the weight of the plug (or possibly the heavier door), otherwise it would make closing the plug much more difficult than it needs to be.

 

[1503-44]

Don't they ever look in the box after they're finished, just to see if they forgot something.
I always check my Ikea fitting baggies. You know. Like just to make sure I didn't miss something..


--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems United has started finding multiple plug doors which are not as they should be.

 

[1503-44]

Yup

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/08/...ug-door-found-investigation-monday/index.html

And ... get this!

The (Alaska) airline had restricted the aircraft in Friday’s incident from flying from over the ocean to Hawaii to ensure the plane could “return very quickly to an airport” in case any warning lights in the aircraft went off, according to Homendy. That decision came after the plane’s auto pressurization fail light came on three times in the past month, Homendy said. It’s not clear whether there is a connection between the warning lights and Friday’s incident, she noted.

So, how is Alaska Air OK with continuing to fly with 3 warnings. I call the repair guy when I get 2 on my dishwasher! OK, how much you want to bet that there IS A FREEKING CONNECTION? This is starting to sound a lot like the Titanic Tour operator. Seems that they should have restricted ALTITUDE TO < 12,500 ft (No supplemental O2 needed for < 30min)

OMG. Voice recorder overwritten (when the 2h loop reinitialized ???).
How's that? What was it recording. Should have been shut down on landing, no?
Did it take more than 2 hours to get to the airport?


--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

 

[LittleInch]

Murphy, what I meant was that the spring allows for some movement up and down as the plane pressurised, or not as the case seems to have been, but still enough to put a lot of force on the bolts.

But the main thing seems to be no bolts as far as an obvious error seems to be.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LittleInch]

What seems to be the rather undamaged looking door.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.