America’s Worst Nuclear Disaster Was in California. Who Knew? 10

[RoopinderTara]

I was quite surprised to find out that the Santa Susana Field Lab, 35 miles from the center of Los Angeles, was the scene of partial core meltown in 1959. More radition was released there than Three Mile Island, over 900X according to one worst case analysis. A friend of mine, an engineer, told me about it. He is not one to believe in conspiracy theories so I checked it out. I read many accounts, looked at internal memos, listed to local broadcasts from investigative news teams, talked to people who lived nearby, too. Amazed how so few people have heard about it. Boeing owns the site now and denies that it is dangerous. Real estate agents sell houses less than 2 miles from the failed nuclear reactor. It is mind boggling. I wrote an article about it on engineering.com. I am very interested in what engineers in this forum have to say about it. If you have first hand knowledge about it or lived in the area I would very much appreciate hearing your story.

https://www.engineering.com/BIM/Art...lear-Disaster-Was-in-California-Who-Knew.aspx

Roopinder Tara
Director of Content
ENGINEERING.com

 

[3DDave]

BridgeSmith, I was more focused on phamENG's reply.

 

[phamENG]

3DDave - were you trying to disagree or agree?

 

[BridgeSmith]

There is more than enough waste off thorium reactors to make a dirty bomb.

Given enough time to stockpile it, I suppose; although the origin of the discussion was concerning microreactors falling into the hands of terrorist groups. In that context, I find it unlikely that a Thorium reactor of that size would have enough U-235 in it to contaminate much. Certainly far less than a Uranium/Plutonium reactor of the same size, were it to be captured.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Dirty bombs don't need U-235 which is relatively inactive in the grand scale of things.

There is no nuclear reaction in a dirty bomb its just a terror method of spreading radioactive isotopes around an area which then needs to be cleared up. What isotope they spread around doesn't really matter all they want is the headline of "dirty bomb" in the media.

 

[IRstuff]

Thorium reactors breed all sorts of radioactive byproducts, most of which generate gamma rays as decay products, which is the aim of dirty bombs.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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[BridgeSmith]

Again, I know what a radioactive dirty bomb is, but thank you Alistair_Heaton for explaining it one more time.

I never claimed a Thorium reactor produced no material that could be used in a dirty bomb; only that it would produce far less of that material than a Uranium-based reactor of the same power output. As a scare tactic, I suppose any amount of radioactive material (or none) would suffice, but an effective dirty bomb would need a larger amount of radioactive material.

That brings us to the other advantage of a molten salt reactor (MSR), the type used for Thorium power plants - availability of the radioactive material from a 'captured' portable reactor (which again, was what was being discussed). In MSRs, the little bit of U233 is mixed in with the much greater volume of the highly toxic salt. Separating it out (without poisoning yourself almost instantaneously) requires specialized equipment, which presumably would not be readily available to your average roving band of Taliban fighters, etc. By contrast, in a Uranium reactor, the radioactive material is concentrated in the fuel rods. Remove and abscond with the fuel rods, and you have the radioactive material for a dirty bomb, all neatly packaged and ready to be strapped onto an explosive device.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[BridgeSmith]

Thorium reactors breed all sorts of radioactive byproducts, most of which generate gamma rays as decay products, which is the aim of dirty bombs.

The bomb maker has to survive at least long enough to build it, though. (See the last paragraph of my previous post)

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[IRstuff]

which presumably would not be readily available to your average roving band of Taliban fighters,

We know that's not quite true; both Pakistani and Russian nuclear expertise was once available for general hire.

Nevertheless, in general, at least some of the Taliban and its ilk aren't that concerned about personal health or longevity, so long as mission goals are accomplished

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

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[BridgeSmith]

Nevertheless, in general, at least some of the Taliban and its ilk aren't that concerned about personal health or longevity, so long as mission goals are accomplished.

Again, even surviving long enough to accomplish the mission goals would be a challenge when dealing with the materials from an MSR.



Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[zeusfaber]

Given the level of public understanding, a dirty bomb only has to distribute a detectable quantity of radiation to be effective.

We're very good at detecting radiation.

A.

 

[BridgeSmith]

...a dirty bomb only has to distribute a detectable quantity of radiation to be effective.

Probably true, at least temporarily...the first time. After the initial panic subsides, the perpetrators' readily apparent ineptitude would likely work against them in their quest to incite fear in the future.

Rod Smith, P.E., The artist formerly known as HotRod10

 

[Sparweb]

... temporarily...the first time. After the initial panic subsides...

...he says 3+ months into a growing global panic about something else... ...are all the schools in your state shut down yet?

http://www.sparweb.ca

 

[Comcokid]

Thorium, decays vis the 'thorium series'. The decay products have relative short radioactive lifetimes (years). U-233 decays vis the thorium series route.
Uranium decays via the 'uranium series'. The decay products have long radioactive lifetimes (centuries).

Yes, there are some things like double neutron capture, other isotope impurities, etc. that mean that there are always some decay products via other decay routes even with thorium. But there are a lot less.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Like all reactors it will have carbon 14 cobalt 60 iron 55 in all the surrounding structure. To be honest it would be easier to just steal a NDT radiography source.

I wonder how many of us are now subject to monitoring by our National security due to this thread

 

[debodine]

Alistair:

<sarcasm on> I resent your implication! This is the free United States of America! We have the technology to monitor everyone all the time and pay government servants to listen. Does anyone believe we are NOT being monitored, at least for certain words or phrases? <sarcasm off>

 

[IRstuff]

Pretty minor stuff, compared to viewing Al Qaeda videos showing their garbage and semi truck based missile launchers, along with their stirring martial music.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

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