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Baltimore Bridge collapse after ship collision 125
- Thread starter Tomfh
- Start date
zeusfaber (Military) ... tidal flow ebbing out of the Curtis Bay Channel acting on the stern ...
More likely wind, per gcaptain.com :
"The emergency generator does not connect to propulsion but should support steering and navigation systems but the ships heading appears to have been pushed off course by the wind directly into the support column."
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
More likely wind, per gcaptain.com :
"The emergency generator does not connect to propulsion but should support steering and navigation systems but the ships heading appears to have been pushed off course by the wind directly into the support column."
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
Today's paper stated the ship was firmly grounded on the bottom. This is consistant with an estimate made of the force needed to slow the ship to a stop of 12 million newtons, or 2.7 million lbf. Tug boats are keeping the ship's tail from wagging.
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
charliealphabravo
Structural
SwinnyGG said:
You are guessing. Saying, rather, that we don't know does not compromise an investigation of cause.
charliealphabravo: "You are guessing. Saying, rather, that we don't know does not compromise an investigation of cause."
It's not guessing if you have paid specialists to investiage for any act of sabotage, tax payer funded FBI:
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
It's not guessing if you have paid specialists to investiage for any act of sabotage, tax payer funded FBI:
Kevin Kelleher, P.E. (retired)
Internal Mechanical Eng'g Consultant
DuPont ESD Specialists
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2
- #246
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
Suspect they will decide that the boat should never have left port with the technical issues it had. But the big bosses didn't want to pay port charges.
Then Dane has been saying they have no chance of shifting it until they get the bulk of the cargo off. It well and truly rammed into the bottom up and over geological features and hooked.
Then Dane has been saying they have no chance of shifting it until they get the bulk of the cargo off. It well and truly rammed into the bottom up and over geological features and hooked.
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1
- #248
KevinK2 said:
I listened to the video. According to the FBI there is no indication of terrorism linked to this incident.
I suspect that this is just standard operating procedure. When something like this happens, it is thoroughly investigated. But I would not see FBI's involvement as an indication of anything intentional in this case.
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4
- #249
Richard Baum
Electrical
This report describes what happened 50 years ago.
I am 79 and was the 4th engineering officer on that ship.(I had gone on leave 12days before) my replacement was killed.
The bridge was the about the same size. 4 lanes
The ship was carried 10,000 tons of ore
The Dali is about 10 times larger
When the Dali hit the bridge the anchor had been down and it was going full speed astern (lots of black smoke) completely out of control.
If the Master and pilots had not dropped the anchor and instead proceeded slow ahead to maintain stearage the Dali would have passed under the bridge
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tasman Bridge disaster
Tasman Bridge from east following collision, 1975
Date 5 January 1975
Time 9:27 p.m. (AEDT)
Location Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Coordinates 42°51′53″S 147°20′48″E
Type Accident
Cause Bulk carrier Lake Illawarra collision with a bridge pier
Deaths 12
The Tasman Bridge disaster occurred on the evening of 5 January 1975, in Hobart, the capital city of Australia's island state of Tasmania, when the bulk carrier Lake Illawarra, travelling up the Derwent River, collided with several pylons of the Tasman Bridge and caused a large section of the bridge deck to collapse onto the ship and into the river below. Twelve people were killed, including seven crew on board Lake Illawarra, and the five occupants of four cars which fell 45 metres (150 ft) after driving off the bridge. Hobart was cut off from its eastern suburbs, and the loss of the road connection had a major social impact. The ship's master was officially penalised for inattention and failure to handle his vessel in a seamanlike manner.
[highlight #FCE94F][/highlight]
The collision occurred at 9:27 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time (UTC+11:00) on Sunday 5 January 1975. The bulk carrier Lake Illawarra, carrying 10,000 tonnes (11,000 short tons; 22,000,000 lb) of zinc ore concentrate, was heading up the Derwent River to offload its cargo to EZ Industries' Risdon Zinc Works, upstream from Hobart and about 3 km (1.9 mi) from the bridge. The 1,025 m (3,363 ft) long main viaduct of the bridge was composed of a central main navigation span, two flanking secondary navigation spans, and nineteen approach spans. The ship was off course as it neared the bridge, partly due to the strong tidal current but also because of inattention by the ship's master, Captain Boleslaw Pelc.[1] Initially approaching the bridge at eight knots (15 km/h; 9.2 mph), Pelc slowed the ship to a 'safe' speed. Although Lake Illawarra was capable of passing through the bridge's central navigation span, Pelc attempted to pass through one of the eastern spans.
Despite several changes of course, Lake Illawarra proved unmanageable due to having insufficient steerage way. In desperation Pelc ordered 'full speed astern',(which was about 10% of forward speed) at which point all control was lost. The vessel drifted towards the bridge midway between the central navigation span and the eastern shore, colliding with the pile capping of piers 18 and 19, bringing three unsupported spans and a 127-metre (417 ft) section of roadway crashing into the river and onto the ship's deck. Lake Illawarra listed to starboard and sank within minutes a short distance to the south, in 35 metres (115 ft) of water. Seven crew members were trapped and drowned. The subsequent Court of Marine Inquiry found that Pelc had not handled the ship in a proper and seamanlike manner, and his certificate was suspended for six months.[2]
As the collision occurred on a Sunday evening, there was relatively little traffic on the bridge. While no cars were travelling between the 18th and 19th pylons when that section collapsed, four cars drove over the gap, killing five occupants. Two drivers managed to stop their vehicles at the edge, but not before their front wheels had dropped over the lip of the bridge deck. One of these cars contained Frank and Sylvia Manley in their Holden HQ Monaro.
Sylvia Manley: "As we approached, it was a foggy night ... there was no lights on the bridge at the time. We just thought there was an accident. We slowed down to about 40 km/h (25 mph) and I'm peering out the window, desperately looking to see the car ... what was happening on the bridge. We couldn't see anything but we kept on travelling. The next thing, I said to Frank, "The bridge is gone!" And he just applied the brakes and we just sat there swinging.[3] As we sat there, we couldn't see anything in the water. All we could see was a big whirlpool of water and apparently the boat was sinking. So with that, we undid the car door and I hopped out."[4]
Frank Manley: "[Sylvia] said "The white line, the white line's gone. Stop!" I just hit the brakes and I said "I can't, I can't, I can't stop." And next thing we just hung off the gap...when I swung the door open, I could see, more or less, see the water...and I just swung meself towards the back of the car and grabbed the headrest like that to pull myself around.[4] There's a big automatic transmission pan underneath [the car] – that's what it balanced on."[3]
The other car contained Murray Ling, his wife Helen and two of their children. They were driving over the bridge in the east-bound lanes when the span lights went out: 'I knew something bad must have happened so I slowed down'. Ling then noticed several cars ahead of him seemingly disappear as they drove straight over the edge, so he slammed his foot on the brakes. He stopped the car inches from the drop. A following car, caught unaware by the unexpected stop, drove into the rear of Ling's car, pushing its front wheels over the breach. He, too, eased himself and his young family out of the car, then stood horrified as two other cars ignored his attempts to wave them down, raced past (one of which actually swerved around to avoid him), and hurtled over the edge into the river. A loaded bus full of people swerved and skidded, slamming into the side railings after being waved down by Ling.[5]
Emergency response
Private citizens living nearby were on the scene early, even before Lake Illawarra had sunk. Three of these were Jack Read in his H28 yacht Mermerus; David Read in a small launch; and Jerry Chamberlain, who had their boats moored in Montagu Bay close by. These and others, and many shore-based residents, were responsible for saving many of the crew from Lake Illawarra. Those in small craft acted alone in very difficult circumstances with falling concrete, live wires, and water from a broken pipe above, until the water police arrived on the scene. A large number of other organisations were involved in the emergency response, including police, ambulance service, fire brigade, emergency management agency, marine board, Royal Hobart Hospital, the Hobart Tug Company, the Public Works Department, the Transport Commission, the HydroElectric Commission, the Hobart Regional Water Board, the Australian Army and the Royal Australian Navy. At 2:30 am, a fourteen-man Navy Clearance Diving Team flew to Hobart to assist water police in the recovery of the vehicles which had driven off the bridge. Two vehicles were identified on 7 January; one was salvaged that day and the second three days later. Another vehicle was found buried under rubble on 8 January.[citation needed]
A comprehensive survey of the wreck of Lake Illawarra was completed by 13 January. The divers operated in hazardous conditions, with little visibility and strong river currents, contending with bridge debris such as shattered concrete, reinforced steel rods, railings, pipes, lights, wire and power cables. Strong winds on the third day brought down debris from the bridge above, including power cables, endangering the divers working below.
I am 79 and was the 4th engineering officer on that ship.(I had gone on leave 12days before) my replacement was killed.
The bridge was the about the same size. 4 lanes
The ship was carried 10,000 tons of ore
The Dali is about 10 times larger
When the Dali hit the bridge the anchor had been down and it was going full speed astern (lots of black smoke) completely out of control.
If the Master and pilots had not dropped the anchor and instead proceeded slow ahead to maintain stearage the Dali would have passed under the bridge
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tasman Bridge disaster
Tasman Bridge from east following collision, 1975
Date 5 January 1975
Time 9:27 p.m. (AEDT)
Location Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Coordinates 42°51′53″S 147°20′48″E
Type Accident
Cause Bulk carrier Lake Illawarra collision with a bridge pier
Deaths 12
The Tasman Bridge disaster occurred on the evening of 5 January 1975, in Hobart, the capital city of Australia's island state of Tasmania, when the bulk carrier Lake Illawarra, travelling up the Derwent River, collided with several pylons of the Tasman Bridge and caused a large section of the bridge deck to collapse onto the ship and into the river below. Twelve people were killed, including seven crew on board Lake Illawarra, and the five occupants of four cars which fell 45 metres (150 ft) after driving off the bridge. Hobart was cut off from its eastern suburbs, and the loss of the road connection had a major social impact. The ship's master was officially penalised for inattention and failure to handle his vessel in a seamanlike manner.
[highlight #FCE94F][/highlight]
The collision occurred at 9:27 p.m. Australian Eastern Daylight Time (UTC+11:00) on Sunday 5 January 1975. The bulk carrier Lake Illawarra, carrying 10,000 tonnes (11,000 short tons; 22,000,000 lb) of zinc ore concentrate, was heading up the Derwent River to offload its cargo to EZ Industries' Risdon Zinc Works, upstream from Hobart and about 3 km (1.9 mi) from the bridge. The 1,025 m (3,363 ft) long main viaduct of the bridge was composed of a central main navigation span, two flanking secondary navigation spans, and nineteen approach spans. The ship was off course as it neared the bridge, partly due to the strong tidal current but also because of inattention by the ship's master, Captain Boleslaw Pelc.[1] Initially approaching the bridge at eight knots (15 km/h; 9.2 mph), Pelc slowed the ship to a 'safe' speed. Although Lake Illawarra was capable of passing through the bridge's central navigation span, Pelc attempted to pass through one of the eastern spans.
Despite several changes of course, Lake Illawarra proved unmanageable due to having insufficient steerage way. In desperation Pelc ordered 'full speed astern',(which was about 10% of forward speed) at which point all control was lost. The vessel drifted towards the bridge midway between the central navigation span and the eastern shore, colliding with the pile capping of piers 18 and 19, bringing three unsupported spans and a 127-metre (417 ft) section of roadway crashing into the river and onto the ship's deck. Lake Illawarra listed to starboard and sank within minutes a short distance to the south, in 35 metres (115 ft) of water. Seven crew members were trapped and drowned. The subsequent Court of Marine Inquiry found that Pelc had not handled the ship in a proper and seamanlike manner, and his certificate was suspended for six months.[2]
As the collision occurred on a Sunday evening, there was relatively little traffic on the bridge. While no cars were travelling between the 18th and 19th pylons when that section collapsed, four cars drove over the gap, killing five occupants. Two drivers managed to stop their vehicles at the edge, but not before their front wheels had dropped over the lip of the bridge deck. One of these cars contained Frank and Sylvia Manley in their Holden HQ Monaro.
Sylvia Manley: "As we approached, it was a foggy night ... there was no lights on the bridge at the time. We just thought there was an accident. We slowed down to about 40 km/h (25 mph) and I'm peering out the window, desperately looking to see the car ... what was happening on the bridge. We couldn't see anything but we kept on travelling. The next thing, I said to Frank, "The bridge is gone!" And he just applied the brakes and we just sat there swinging.[3] As we sat there, we couldn't see anything in the water. All we could see was a big whirlpool of water and apparently the boat was sinking. So with that, we undid the car door and I hopped out."[4]
Frank Manley: "[Sylvia] said "The white line, the white line's gone. Stop!" I just hit the brakes and I said "I can't, I can't, I can't stop." And next thing we just hung off the gap...when I swung the door open, I could see, more or less, see the water...and I just swung meself towards the back of the car and grabbed the headrest like that to pull myself around.[4] There's a big automatic transmission pan underneath [the car] – that's what it balanced on."[3]
The other car contained Murray Ling, his wife Helen and two of their children. They were driving over the bridge in the east-bound lanes when the span lights went out: 'I knew something bad must have happened so I slowed down'. Ling then noticed several cars ahead of him seemingly disappear as they drove straight over the edge, so he slammed his foot on the brakes. He stopped the car inches from the drop. A following car, caught unaware by the unexpected stop, drove into the rear of Ling's car, pushing its front wheels over the breach. He, too, eased himself and his young family out of the car, then stood horrified as two other cars ignored his attempts to wave them down, raced past (one of which actually swerved around to avoid him), and hurtled over the edge into the river. A loaded bus full of people swerved and skidded, slamming into the side railings after being waved down by Ling.[5]
Emergency response
Private citizens living nearby were on the scene early, even before Lake Illawarra had sunk. Three of these were Jack Read in his H28 yacht Mermerus; David Read in a small launch; and Jerry Chamberlain, who had their boats moored in Montagu Bay close by. These and others, and many shore-based residents, were responsible for saving many of the crew from Lake Illawarra. Those in small craft acted alone in very difficult circumstances with falling concrete, live wires, and water from a broken pipe above, until the water police arrived on the scene. A large number of other organisations were involved in the emergency response, including police, ambulance service, fire brigade, emergency management agency, marine board, Royal Hobart Hospital, the Hobart Tug Company, the Public Works Department, the Transport Commission, the HydroElectric Commission, the Hobart Regional Water Board, the Australian Army and the Royal Australian Navy. At 2:30 am, a fourteen-man Navy Clearance Diving Team flew to Hobart to assist water police in the recovery of the vehicles which had driven off the bridge. Two vehicles were identified on 7 January; one was salvaged that day and the second three days later. Another vehicle was found buried under rubble on 8 January.[citation needed]
A comprehensive survey of the wreck of Lake Illawarra was completed by 13 January. The divers operated in hazardous conditions, with little visibility and strong river currents, contending with bridge debris such as shattered concrete, reinforced steel rods, railings, pipes, lights, wire and power cables. Strong winds on the third day brought down debris from the bridge above, including power cables, endangering the divers working below.
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2
- #251
EM is a huckster and egotist; he's promised full FSD "next year" for almost a decade now and still hasn't delivered. He knows more about manufacturing than anyone in the world.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
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1
- #253
Murph 9000
Computer
We don't really have any detail on the electrical problems reported at the dock. There's a world of difference between just tripping a couple of breakers supplying reefer units in the stacks, and something critical going on with the service generators or main switchboard.
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
It was gen and shore hook up issues apparently.
Black ship for minutes
Black ship for minutes
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2
- #255
Richard Baum
Electrical
Maybe
Brad Waybright
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
correct.
the time has come to wait for the results of the inquiry
Brad Waybright
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
correct.
the time has come to wait for the results of the inquiry
Given that the ship lost power multiple times while under way, it would seem to be an incredible coincidence that shore power was also problematic. Occam's Razor would say that the ship had problems with power, both docked and under way.
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
Let's wait for the report and then play bingo. Here are ten things I predict the report will tell us. Let's see how many actually appear.
All wild speculation. What else should be on the card?
The ship went black because multiple things were broken.
Some of them them had been broken for a long time
On ships, something is always broken
Sometimes the stuff you know is broken stops you finding out that other stuff is broken too
In some ships, individual DGs fall off the board quite often
Because you don't as a rule mess around with equipment line-up while you're in confined waters, DG trips usually wait until a time when it doesn't really matter. You can come to depend on this.
The problems in port also happened because multiple things were broken
They fixed some stuff in port
What they fixed in port wasn't the stuff they didn't know was broken
If problems only manifest at a time of their own choosing, you can never be certain the stuff you fixed has cured them completely
Some of them them had been broken for a long time
On ships, something is always broken
Sometimes the stuff you know is broken stops you finding out that other stuff is broken too
In some ships, individual DGs fall off the board quite often
Because you don't as a rule mess around with equipment line-up while you're in confined waters, DG trips usually wait until a time when it doesn't really matter. You can come to depend on this.
The problems in port also happened because multiple things were broken
They fixed some stuff in port
What they fixed in port wasn't the stuff they didn't know was broken
If problems only manifest at a time of their own choosing, you can never be certain the stuff you fixed has cured them completely
All wild speculation. What else should be on the card?
LionelHutz
Electrical
The bow dragging bottom could have been why it turned into the bridge.
TugboatEng
Marine/Ocean
Do remember, the ship browned out, it didn't just black out. This excludes a generator "trip". It seems more likely that a mechanical fault caused the DG(s) to lose speed and get into the under frequency roll-off curve of the voltage regulator. This also explains the black smoke.
Alistair_Heaton
Mechanical
how is the electrics set up on these boats tug?
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