Becoming Invisible 3

[casseopeia]

Why is it when someone has been laid off, it instantly renders them invisible?

I got the word this morning, I’m out of a job. But I have to stay on for a week or two until my testimony as an expert in an on-going trial is completed. I told my office partner and one co-worker who has been expecting the ax as I have. I have now become invisible. No one talks to me. No one even looks up when I walk by. It wasn’t like this on Friday.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

Who said that?

 

[MikeHalloran]

Go to the beach when you're not in court.
There's no reason for you to be in the office.
What are they gonna do, fire you? Oops, already did.

It gets worse. Most of your professional contacts won't take your calls, either. At least you'll find out who's truly professional.

Wait, it gets still worse. HR weenies will treat you like a pariah as soon as they find out your departure was involuntary. State of the economy and all that stuff doesn't matter; it's like time traveling to the Fifties.


On the other hand, since you've been discharged, you're eligible to file for unemployment compensation right now... and there's no reason you should appear in court without compensation, since you're not an employee any longer.

Coupla grand per day or fraction, in advance, sounds fair to me...



Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[GregLocock]

Sorry to hear that Cass. I've never worked with a 'dead man walking', if they were fired for naughtiness they were straight out the door, otherwise we have good compensation packages for involuntary redundancies (and there have been few of those, most people volunteer).

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[KENAT]

My guess is, basically the awkwardness. People don't know what to say to you. They're glad it wasn't them, maybe don't want to rub it in. Maybe they don't want to catch the lergy;-).

Here they are invisible because they get walked out that day, preferably stopping only to pick up their lunch box and jacket or equivalent. They are expected to return in a few days at a time convenient for HR/management to pick up their stuff. There have been exceptions, my boss earlier in the month was allowed to pack up there and then - big of them - but had to leave once packed.

Chin up, plenty of time to perfect the dance moves.



KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[jmw]

Leaving voluntarily is the easiest for the folks to handle because presumably you are going to a better place, you usually get to work your notice and can be relied on for a round of free drinks on your last day.

Being canned doesn't affect them because, as pointed out, your little feet don't touch the ground between being told and given the bums rush by security and so they don't have to socialise with you, just watch the fun.

But, in your situation you are walking dead and they smell blood in the air.

They don't know how to react and they don't know how you will react if they initiate contact.

You just became an alien and you might be friendly but then again you might reach under your desk for that mail order AK with the folding stock and do a postman on them.

When I was made redundant from my last company they would have liked to see me gone within 5 minutes of the decision.

The big dummy (me) then asked what they were going to do about a new system I'd designed that had to be commissioned in Siberia.

But they had no succession planning in place (HR really are useless and they could never admit to anyone being indispensable even for a brief spell) but simply giving someone my laptop and saying "it's all in there go figure it out" wasn't going to cut it (actually, I guess no-one has accessed anything much on my old laptop even to this day... that's one of the benefits of being verbose and disorganised - who wants to go slowly mad trying to figure it all out?).

Now, if I'd been smarter I'd have gone immediately and let them field the phone call from the client asking when I was going to come over and commission.
That way I could have charged them a fortune at contractor's rates.

As it is, they rescinded my redundancy temporarily (legal necessity in the UK) while I went and did the work.

Of course, management also have their AK fears so I was given an assistant to take who was supposed to learn on the job. I did everything I was supposed to to the best of my ability but really, I should have been smarter and made a deal for better terms.

I'd say you are in exactly the same boat and maybe need to check whether they can do to you what they are doing or whether you are entitled to go as soon as told and then negotiate a deal for any necessary work.
Redundancy is supposed to be a quick and painless kill. They shouldn't be allowing you to walk around spreading doom and gloom and even, possibly, sabotaging everything in sight.

So go do something a smarter than I did and ask them for contractor's rates for this last task.





JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[TheBlacksmith]

I was made redundant in my last job and out of the office within an hour of being in HR. Company was small, less than 150 people and HR put out some feel good message about me leaving to seek other opportunities. I still run into people from the old company that ask why I "left." My guess is embarrassment/fear of being associated with you and being next. This is when you find out who are your real friends and who are clingons. The world can be a cruel place.

 

[hokie66]

Very unprofessional of the management to give you notice of termination while you are in the middle of a litigation. I would imagine the client and attorney would not be too happy with the situation.

After a period of stress and dismay, you will be better off elsewhere.

 

[EQguys]

Sorry to hear that Cass !! Good luck with the job hunt. KENAT and jmw pretty much summed everything.

"Does the man make the journey or does the journey make the man" - Mark Twain

 

[JStructsteel]

Sorry to hear that, but if I was you, I would report the next day you found another job, and that to continue as a expert witness, you will have to have a contract. They want thier cake and be able to eat it too. They dont care about you, just getting out of litigation.

 

[KENAT]

Maybe I'm missing something, but if Cass is basically being made to work her X weeks notice how relevant are some of the points people are making? While a crummy situation etc. is it that unusual/unreasonable? Plus, I wonder how it being a court appearance may affect things, are there any subpoena or similar issues that make just walking off the job unrealistic?

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[casseopeia]

Yes KENAT, you are right. I have been subpoenaed to appear at this trial. If I walk out and do not appear, I could be charged with contempt and I suppose I could be fined and go to jail. I seriously doubt the state would do that since the reality is that they don’t have enough space for real criminals as it is. It would certainly not look good for me if I stay in this field and run into the same attorneys under different circumstances.

I’m not sure what would happen if I were forced to leave AND forced to testify. The expert witness contract is with the firm, not me as an individual. I suppose I could simply name my price. I’ll have all of it, all $500/hr, thank you. The opposing side makes the check out to my company and they just sign it over to me. I’ll have to check, but I think I can refuse to testify if I have not been paid in advance, too.

My boss didn’t even ask about the trial. He had assumed it settled. He wasn’t at our last biweekly staff meeting where I gave a report on where my ongoing cases stood. His bad. So he agreed to keep me on until the end of my testimony. Works out better for the company and it makes a smoother transition for me. I’ve just got to deal with being invisible for awhile. I’ve still got trial prep to do and then there’s always the exit plan I’ve been working on.

I do believe my company has behaved unprofessionally. They didn’t even tell our HR person. She found out when I asked about the formwork for my 401K rollover. I’m not looking to do any harm. I plan on remaining completely professional. I’d do it even if I planned on leaving the field altogether an become a massage therapist. I’d rather them think, “we’re going to miss Cass” and not “thank goodness we got rid of her.”

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[TheTick]

People ignore you because they are self-absorbed jerks. They are more concerned with the jolt to their own mortality than with the coworker they are losing.

 

[monkeydog]

Cass,

Sorry to hear about your lay-off.
Like others have said, people avoid you because it is akward for them. Engineers are generally not touchy-feely types, and they (we) have a hard time empathizing with others.

Massage Therapist?
On the local TV commercials the massage therapiet graduates say they make as much in half the time as when they worked full time. (trying to lighten it up) another trait us engineers have in lack of empathy.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Engineers ignore you because we are introverts. GOD that was hard to say!

- Steve

 

[casseopeia]

I think the reason is far more basic than that. I think it goes way back in evolution when it was dangerous for animals to be near any sick, injured or dying member of the flock.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[KENAT]

Oh, so it appears my assumption that you were completing the trial just as part of working your notice was incorrect, it's more like a jmw situation.

It does indeed sound like your boss or whoever else is involved is doing a crummy job of things. For all my places faults, it's my understanding that when they let you go they have all the paperwork ready and usually there's some kind of 'job finding' seminar a few days later.

While what Tick says will be true for some, I think it's a bit harsh for many. Honestly I'm not sure what I'd say. I didn't know what to say to my boss when he got let go. Once you express your commiserations/sympathy and ask if they’re OK etc. what else do you say? Maybe you ask what their plans are, but if they don’t have any yet this could make them feel worse. You could lament the state of the company, economy or whatever with them but again this probably doesn’t make them feel any better, maybe worse. Of course you could just ‘listen’ but being male & an engineer you tend to want to fix things, not just listen to the problem, and while perhaps not the case in point, if they’re a typical male engineer they may not want to talk about it anyway.

Cass, your ‘not being associated with the sick etc.’ that's what I meant by 'catch the lergy'. I can’t say this really went through my head with my boss but I can see it happening.

Maybe some of it was shock too and it will wear off as the day/week goes on.

Somehow I find it hard to imagine you being invisible though, based on the pictures you’ve posted on the pub etc. and the personality that comes across in most of your posts I know there’d certainly be people around here that would notice you;-).

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies:

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484

 

[jmw]

This isn't a case of let go under normal dismisal (is it?) nor a resignation i.e. it is a redundancy and I think you hinted at some of the concerns about business earlier.

Ergo:

My boss didn't even ask about the trial. He had assumed it settled. He wasn't at our last biweekly staff meeting where I gave a report on where my ongoing cases stood. His bad.

Absolutely. Same as in my case but instead of keeping quiet until I had cleared my desk and taken the money, then tipping them the wink so they would have had to bring me back at contractor rates, I blabbed.
Did you blab? Or did someone spot the problem?
But now:

So he agreed to keep me on until the end of my testimony. Works out better for the company...

Yes, of course. "he agreed"? don't you mean "you agreed"? He needed you to stay on unless you suggested staying on... your bad.

In my case they had an obligation to suspend my redundancy and re-instate it once the job was done.
My bad.
I should have insisted on the redundancy and then negotiated a sweet sub-contract arrangement when they had begun to sweat blood.

... and it makes a smoother transition for me.

but not as smooth as being paid consultants rates.

I can't help but think you have been shafted twice here and you are missing the opportunity to spend some of that time looking for a new job with a bit more cash in hand to do it.

Don't forget the per day or part day, expenses at your rates, pay for days of preparation etc. and what happens if there is no clear cut result? More work.

Price it up and see if you don't think you should re-negotiate... I mean, what have you got to lose?

Plus, you set a precedent for contract work.
If they get occasional jobs coming up they should be able to use you again while you are looking for new permanent employment.

If they just let go extra staff there will come a point where they don't have enough work for a return to higher staffing levels but insufficient staff to cater for transient uplifts in work load i.e. they may find they need to refuse some work when they could call you in on contract basis.

The moment you get a good job offer, game over.

You say the contract is with the company.
It is their responsibility to provide an expert witness. I am sure (this cannot be an isolated instance) that if you had notified the court that you were no longer employed or under notice (and felt that in all honesty because of the conditions you did not think you could necessarily guarantee to be able to "focus" fully on the case etc., they would probably have/want to release you from your subpoenae and might even have cause to want to release you even so as there is always a possibility that your testimony could be adversely influenced...(or something along those lines).

Now, the moment you were notified your services were no longer required you needed to focus on you, not the company.
They aren't doing you any favours. You are doing them favours and you shouldn't, you should switch to working on contract as being better for you and for the company (if they don't want your testimony later challenged for whatever reason... the losing side may exploit any circumstance to set aside a judgement?).

I'd suggest you investigate the situation your probable losses here (the difference between salary and contract fees, and put a value on lost time searching for new employment and then discuss with your ex-boss.

You have nothing to lose by investigating and by saying you were caught of base by circumstances, agreed to something you should not have agreed to and don't think it appropriate for you to act on the companies behalf under the current circumstances.

If nothing else, make them sweat it a bit. The closer to court date the sweatier they will be.





JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[Latexman]

Cass,

I've been partially invisible for 8 months now. I worked for business "A" for 18 years. I bid out to business "B" 2.5 years ago. The parent company bought another company and the FTC said the parent company had to sell business "A". Eight months ago, business "A" hijacked me from business "B", (yes, I'm for sale) but my office is still located with the business "B" folks until the new owners decide where I'm going. So, I've been invisible to my associates in business "B" for 8 months.

It is eerie, but I think it's to be expected. They are a great bunch of folks who speak socially whenever our paths cross. They even gave me a goodby party. Most of the time though they just leave me alone business-wise because they know I should not be helping them. That gives me a chance to focus on business "A", which I appreciate. It's just that a large percentage of the interaction has ceased and I notice it very much.

Good luck,
Latexman

 

[btrueblood]

I like jmw's advice in his last post, last line. Make 'em sweat.

I've left jobs voluntarily, and involuntarily, and have seen the behavior you describe regardless of the circumstances. Ignore it, and cross those people off your "friends" list. Some people simply find you worthless if they can't use you to further their own purposes.

Your real friends and professional colleagues will take you out to the pub this Friday and get you likkered up and talking war stories. Then take a drive out past the boss' house, and "hey, look what I found in my trunk, who put these paint-filled water balloons and valve stem wrenches in here...?" Ok, that last didn't happen, but we did discuss the possibility.