Boeing 737 (500, not a Max) crashed in Indonesia 1

[IRstuff]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55601909

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[Alistair_Heaton]

Prelim report is expected to be on time on the 8th of Feb. And various bits and pieces have been shipped to the UK and USA including auto throttle quadrant. But the investigator is saying there was a change to the AT status but didn't say what. They are still missing the CVR data block. But managed to get the full FDR output which is the cut down 360 variables which is the normal for that vintage of aircraft.

 

[RedSnake]

Abbreviations?
AT = ??
CVR = ??
FDR = ??

Best Regards A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[LittleInch]

Auto Throttle
Cockpit Voice Recorder
Flight Data Recorder

The last two are commonly referred to as the "black boxes" even though they are in fact bright Orange....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[LittleInch]

So assuming this AT fault flipped the aircraft on its side or it went completely over and was then diving into the sea on its back, how are you supposed to get out that?

Throttle back and rotate to get the right way up and then pull up hoping you haven't gone VNE?

It was still 10,000 ft to do something unless the initial action caused some part of the plane to fall off.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[RedSnake]

Thanks LittleInch

Yes orange is the new black ;-)

Best Regard A

PS. Hade probably been able to figure it out myself, but I have plowed through a lot of motor and frequency conv. manuals to day with M0, 100 K, 60 K, S1, S3, Mmax inv and tons of abbreviations.. sigh .. I think I have brain fatigue.

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[moon161]

LI, there were some unusual attitude/upset recovery training videos that were posted in one of the other 737 threads.

I think this was one of them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Zy_rl8WuM

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I would hang fire on the AT being the issue for a few days.

And that's one of the best flight upset recovery training videos out there.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

prelim report....

http://knkt.dephub.go.id/knkt/ntsc_aviation/baru/pre/2021/PK-CLC Preliminary Report.pdf

Will start reading it

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Seems its pretty much as we discussed here with asymmetric power but with the added factor of the aircraft turning towards the less powered engine which increases the yaw loading and secondary effect of roll.

Crew seem to have flown recently. And the training program looks normal In fact I think its copied from EASA.

The 737-500 is a dual channel auto pilot with second gen yaw dampener. Auto lands the pilots have to help out with their feet apparently or let it land in a crab. Which it has an ability for the gear to rotate to allow increased acceptable crab angles during touchdown.

They had weather to deal with and a low level level off as human factor distractions.

Just finished the second read.

Bit strange there is no FDR plots. Also its started out as a left turn but other data suggests it was in a right turn in the final moments.

 

[LittleInch]

Not really a lot there in 40 pages.

There's something a bit odd with the heading of this plane.

It looks like it started at about 045 degrees, they got to 8500 ft then asked for 075, but actually started turning left.

If they were doing this on A/P I guess they were rather surprised that they were going in the opposite direction to the one they wanted to.

suggests the differential thrust was more than the amount of rudder or roll that the A/P could apply??

Then at some point the A/P gave up (no explanation given) and the plane suddenly flipped over left at 45 degrees.

NO real information supplied about what happened next or why they didn't regain control.

I guess they are hoping to find the CVR module somewhere on the seabed.



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

There is a disconnect of the AP when the servo's are over loaded So if its already turning one way unable to hold wings level and its commanded to turn the other it will let loose usually with a bit of a bang. It can't handle asymmetric roll loads at full power on one engine the other at idle. Don't have a clue what its cut out force is.

The yaw damper will be feeding in loads of rudder to the right to compensate for the lower thrust on the left engine. Which will add to the roll to the right.

You right though there is something odd with the report and lack of fdr data and detail of everything never mind the headings.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

An update they started using a suction dredger and managed to find the CVR memory module.

No news if they can read the data or not.

https://megapolitan.kompas.com/read...dot-lumpur-untuk-temukan-cvr-sriwijaya-sj-182

Here is a link to the story but its in local lingo but Edge translates it.

 

[dik]

Just off the press, "The US Federal Aviation Administration has proposed requiring airlines to replace fuel system processors on Boeing 737 Max jets, citing problems with fuel shut-off systems. Boeing already addressed the concern in a 2020 service bulletin that described procedures for replacing a processor unit."

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

It's all 737's due to nothing has changed since the 60's

 

[TugboatEng]

I heard in the SR-71 manual it describes the side of the windscreen your head smacks is opposite the side of the engine failure.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

That is the indication on a lot of aircraft tug. My baldy head has bleed like a bitch multiple times in the simulator due to these reactions.

 

[RedSnake]

It does seem to be a work environment issue to run simulations without a safety helmet or is it part of the simulation to knock the pilots out to then see if they can handle the situation anyway.

Happy Easter Greetings A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

We went through it in the 737 thread. There is a heads up display projector which has some rather angular lumpy pits with sharp plastic after they a have worn a bit. And certain exercises if your tall you head gets battered off them. We have way more room in the cockpit so don't get anywhere near the side windows.

Although an engine seize on the Jetstream used to leave bruising on your shoulders where the harness went. Thankfully never had that one in real life.

 

[RedSnake]

Okey Thanks.
Nicked my eyebrow ones when someone opened a door on me, people got hysteric and wanted to call a ambulans.
It bleeds like h.ll, even if it's just a tiny wound.

BR A

“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein

 

[MacGyverS2000]

An ex forcefully opened a door on my eye once, Anna... that's why she's an ex, I suppose ;-)


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