Boeing again 47

[Alistair_Heaton]

It's a legal.nightmare I suspect that if they did try and just dump what they don't want it would takes years to sort out. And suspect would result In people at spirit going to jail.

Plus might effect certification of the sites they want turning them into Greenfield. With the current mood of the faa it may be cheaper to just pay up.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Just popped up in my feed that spirit is laying off workers at Boeing plants.

Others will be better at commenting on the process and effects of that.


There is also reports that deal to sell the airbus parts is imminent. Sell might be an optimistic word.

I suspect Boeing can't touch spirit until they are offloaded which might be for a token amount to release the liabilitys.

 

[3DDave]

Thanks again for sharing those links.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Boeing and spirit

https://leehamnews.com/2024/06/25/boeing-simply-cant-afford-a-cash-deal-for-spirit-aerosystems/

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Good breakdown of the spirit sites and what they do.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...irbus-near-deal-carve-up-supplier-2024-06-25/

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/boeing-buy-spirit-aero-4-041118022.html

Boeing getting it's part of spirit for stock.

Airbus getting it's sites for 1$ plus getting the pension liabilities of 600 million covered with cash to them.

Seems common sense has been applied.

 

[LittleInch]

Interesting article here.

Best quote is "Boeing's too big to fail, but it's not too big to be mediocre,"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6p2jeg14r9o

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[waross]

Does the US have anything like Canada's "Westray Act"?

What was the Westray bill (Bill C-45)?

The Westray bill or Bill C-45 was federal legislation that amended the Canadian Criminal Code and became law on March 31, 2004. The Bill (introduced in 2003 in the 37th parliament, second session) established new legal duties for workplace health and safety and imposed serious penalties for violations that result in injuries or death. The Bill provided new rules for attributing criminal liability to organizations, including corporations, their representatives and those who direct the work of others.

Sections of the Criminal Code

The amendment added Section 217.1 to the Criminal Code, which reads:

"217.1 Every one who undertakes, or has the authority, to direct how another person does work or performs a task is under a legal duty to take reasonable steps to prevent bodily harm to that person, or any other person, arising from that work or task."

Owners and supervisors have been jailed under the Westray act after serious safety workplace accidents leading to death or injury.
It may take something as drastic jail time for some very senior Boeing executives before a culture change happens.

The Westray Bill puts a notice on the desks of CEOs and owners in Canada.
THE BUCK STOPS HERE!
Link to The Westray Act, Overview

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The Canadian act comes from the UK health and safety 1974 act.

Most of the 1st world common wealth members have it in some form.

The Queen was very pro it. And did what she did.

I would be utterly amazed if the USA had anything like it. In fact the opersite has been lobbied and paid for in political donations to ensure the liability remains solely with the individuals being told what the management demand.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The Dutch roll incident they have released the cause.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/southwest-jet-dutch-roll-parked-outside-storm/3587447/

 

[Sym P. le]

Attached is the NTSB Preliminary Report

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

73 knts isn't that special.

Iceland air aircraft Max will be subject to that and more regularly.

Don't know what the certification requirements are.

 

[AZPete]

The report noted that the anomaly was detected immediately after a maintenance event.

 

[LittleInch]

Lightening strike might have had more to do with it?

Tail is the highest bit.

DO they earth aircraft when on the ground or does it just jump across the tyres if you get struck on the tarmac?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Civilian no they don't earth them.

As for lightning strike basically anywhere.

 

[Sym P. le]

The idea that the bracket died of natural causes is inane. I hope they have more than that.

 

[Sym P. le]

The captain said that while reviewing the logbook before the flight, he noted a previously recorded yaw damper discrepancy ...

Three aircraft were observed to have small rudder oscillations without associated rudder control surface movement ...

These quotes are red flags but are easily glossed over in the report. It seems a stretch to suggest a wind gust or other weather event caused or initiated the damage seen in the the photos provided in the preliminary report. Was there slop in the bracket holes?

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

If my rudder pedals were moving uncommanded on the A220 I would be grounding it.

And it would be written up in such way that they would be needing airbus to give a procedure release. Plus coms with chief pilot and tech pilot immediately.

Be interested to see what previous techlog entries were on the subject.

The natural causes is straight out of the old Boeing incident manual.

I suspect it is a everyone has messed up incident.

They are lucky it didn't turn into a fatal accident with a compromised tail.

 

[waross]

DO they earth aircraft when on the ground or does it just jump across the tyres if you get struck on the tarmac?

Tires are conductive.
It wasn't always so.
In the 40's and early 50's it was not uncommon to get a static shock from a car that had been travelling recently.
When I was a kid, static straps or grounding straps on automobiles were common.
This was a conductive strap fastened to the frame so that it dragged on the ground and discharged any static buildup.
Then tire manufacturers started adding carbon to the tire material to make it conductive enough to discharge static.
No-one gets static shocks from a car anymore.
Imagine what the first ground worker to touch an incoming aircraft would feel if the tires were not conductive.
BUT

DO they earth aircraft when on the ground or does it just jump across the tyres if you get struck on the tarmac?

Given the characteristics of lightning strikes, a lightning strike will probably flash over the tires anyway.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

I am pretty certain its not spirit that produces the rear fuselage.

Its Boeing.