China Eastern Airlines flight MU5735 737-800 Crash 17

[Eufalconimorph]

Avherald.

Reuters.

Dash cam footage showing crash angle.

Video of security camera video, straight on (angle of descent looks steeper than reality).

 

[dik]

Hehehehe...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[1503-44]

As I mentioned to Alistair the other day, I couldn't have dreamed of getting into any airline. You had to have 5000 hours flying MAC transports on the Vietnam routes before anybody would talk to you back then. Crop dusting ... maybe, but lots of competition there too. Even aerospace engineers were driving trucks and designing roof trusses. Settle was a black out.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Most European airlines take first officers out of school with 170-200 hours in Thier log books.

 

[SwinnyGG]

There is something funny about the rotorhead.

Think it's called a teetering rotor head. They get a thing called mastbumping.

Just for the record... the Robinson rotorhead design has a couple of unique features, but they have nothing to do with mast bumping. Mast bumping is a potential failure mechanism on every rotary wing airframe design which uses a semi-rigid rotor; there are many. Most common would be the Bell UH-1/AH-1, and the huge family of Bell JetRanger-and-analogue products which followed.

Mast Bumping is a danger unique to a semi-rigid rotor system but it occurs almost entirely due to pilot error. As the disc load on any helicopter decreases from 1g toward 0g, the rotor generally becomes more responsive to control inputs (or, as disc load diverges from 1g to 0g, control gain goes up). In practical terms this means that in any helicopter with a semi-rigid rotor system, you need to be very, very careful about the magnitude of control inputs when you're in a g-light state. There was an unfortunate set of UH-1 pilots in Vietnam who found this out while flying map-of-the-earth flightpaths which resulted in the main rotor detaching itself from the shaft due to mast bumping when they performed a hard nose-down control input while under near-zero g at the top of a hill or whatever.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Thanks for that, I learned very early on in my career that the fatality rate amongst rotary pilots is utterly collosal.

And it doesn't seem to matter what experience level they are there is a vast number of random factors which can get them.

As I said I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about mechanical Palm trees. The way I minimise my risk with them is just never go near them with even a hint of blades spinning.

And that includes keeping my engine wash away from them when I am flying fixed wing.

And you really don't want to be anywhere near their disk wash. Been there got the t shirt with a seaking in a 7 ton turbo prop. 1 thousand ft below crossing his track under radar vectors near Prestwick in Scotland. It all got rather aerobatic for 20 seconds.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Just as good a place as any for interest.

A safety system saving the day.

I can only presume the report has taken so long because the captain is part of the French aviation mafia and they waited until he retired. Same mafia fiddle the Concorde crash conclusions.

https://avherald.com/h?article=4867f2bd&opt=0

 

[LionelHutz]

Actually, this really isn't a good place to be putting random crap about other accidents or helicopters.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Ok fair enough I won't do it again. I was just doing my weekly incident learn from others mistakes homework.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

And to add as there has been none what so ever notices to other operators it's pretty certain it's not an engineering failure.

 

[dik]

The stuff is interesting... and appreciated.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Do you feel any better?

-Dik

 

[AusG]

Now I want something (non fatal obviously) to happen in France so we can hear more about the French aviation mafia

 

[LittleInch]

The silence over this crash is very worrying. I think most of the extreme ideas have been discounted by the physical evidence that the plane was virtually complete when it speared into the ground at several hundred knots.

So what's left?
Explosion?
A fight in the cockpit?
Auto pilot gone mad?
What's the current pilot talk or is it a varied as this thread is?


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[SnTMan]

"Forget it Jake, its Chinatown."

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

The pilot chat is centred round the cockpit crew dynamics and cultural issues with Chinese and loss of face.

 

[1503-44]

I find those issues tend to be strongest where they take their responsibilities seriously and the consequences of failure could be more than one initially thought when setting out the task.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[LittleInch]

But something caused the plane to nose dive.

That wasn't the crew having a disagreement.


Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[1503-44]

Where did you see that it was not crew related?
I don't think we know that it was, neither that it wasn't.


A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Chinese culture in Aviation is extremely different to western. They have a very beat everyone with a stick mentality and quite the opposite of no blame culture.

Fines and down grades are the norm for trivial transgressions of arbitrary flight parameters which quite often are defined by none pilots or engineers. Also operation mistakes there is a finger pointing exercise of who gets the penalty. As such there can not be human error due environmental or physiological reasons.

I won't trot out the back ground of the crew on that flight or the history behind why a lot of people think it might have played a large part in what happened.

As such the black box data has been accessed and absolutely nothing technical has appeared relating to the type.

Pre covid there was a quite a few western crews working there on contract they were mostly released when covid started. The conditions the local crews have to live there are apparently horrific. We are talking solitary confinement for weeks on end if there is even a hint that you have been in contact with a covid positive person. Which includes one person on a plane testing positive within 14 days of flying and the whole aircraft will get taken away to a camp to isolate. And they don't stop for 5-6 levels down the tree of contacts. Some do 3 weeks in confinement and then get out and fly home and then its straight back in again because someone on that flight tested positive as well.

 

[1503-44]

It appears they think they have found the perfect excuse to keep the entire population in line now, figuratively and literally. Its looking more like North Korea every day. Inevitable end for strong-man govs. They all seem to get there one way or another.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[Alistair_Heaton]

Now I want something (non fatal obviously) to happen in France so we can hear more about the French aviation mafia

We have discussed the latest one above in the thread. But as requested I won't be discussing it here in depth.